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Zero-emission vehicles, their batteries & subsidies/rebates for them.- No politics regarding the subsidies!

Blumlein 88

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1. Because I said so.
2. Because I'm so tired of hearing about CO2 this and CO2 that, and I saw an article about a shortage of it.
Wonder what percentage of CO2 emissions are from carbonated beverages? Maybe I shouldn't mention it, some loony greenie will want to ban carbonation even though it only makes some infinitesimal difference. Even though distributing them probably causes 1000 times more emissions.

EDIT to add: Seems some reasonable ball park estimates are for the USA, carbonation is .001% of total emissions. The cost to make the bottle distribute it etc is far higher, but those costs are the same for any beverage minus the carbonation.

PS-Just received some new hiking shoes. Guaranteed carbon neutral. That probably didn't include the UPS delivery however.
 
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Marc v E

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Great quality and fun interview with Sandy Monroe about himself, what will happen during the EV transition and which brands will survive (not a Tesla fanboy video, just evidence based):
 

Marc v E

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Makes sense. Also, usually the interview makes more sense then the representation in print.
I will check and see if I can find the whole interview.
 

Blumlein 88

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Makes sense. Also, usually the interview makes more sense then the representation in print.
I will check and see if I can find the whole interview.
It was part of a talk he gave at an energy conference in Norway. Which apparently isn't available directly anywhere yet.

He mainly said we have to end up with solar energy for nearly everything as it is the only sustainable option not to ruin the planet. Energy transitions take a few decades to happen, and we will need oil and gas during the transition or civilization would crumble for lack of energy. Even though it might benefit him financially to force an earlier transition that it wasn't smart policy.
 

Spocko

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It was part of a talk he gave at an energy conference in Norway. Which apparently isn't available directly anywhere yet.

He mainly said we have to end up with solar energy for nearly everything as it is the only sustainable option not to ruin the planet. Energy transitions take a few decades to happen, and we will need oil and gas during the transition or civilization would crumble for lack of energy. Even though it might benefit him financially to force an earlier transition that it wasn't smart policy.
That's my conclusion - solar installations + battery storage (with all their gov't subsidies) will get us to energy independence off the grid faster. I expect huge jumps in electricity prices over the next 5 years and I'll bite the bullet for that install maybe next year.
 

blueone

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Well, see, this is a point of contention. It costs hundreds of billions or many trillions to do something, so some of us don't want to support doing something just for the point of doing something; that won't really address the problem. If the global warming crisis doesn't get a sufficiently global solution, and we spent our wealth on structural changes that don't make a difference, then there's less wealth available to implement the mitigations that might be necessary because warming is an insufficiently addressed reality.
I was just reading this morning about exactly the kind of climate effect that wasting money on "doing something" might keep us from affording mitigation efforts which are critical in the longer run.


The ice on Greenland is apparently going to melt, according to this authoritative source, there's not anything we can do about it, and one way or another we'll have to do something about coastal cities, and that'll cost trillions.
 

Chromatischism

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That's my conclusion - solar installations + battery storage (with all their gov't subsidies) will get us to energy independence off the grid faster. I expect huge jumps in electricity prices over the next 5 years and I'll bite the bullet for that install maybe next year.
I don't know about peaking, but longer-term, prices will come down. Already solar is cheaper than other forms of energy and that will push down electricity bills. Scale brings prices down.
 

Chromatischism

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The ice on Greenland is apparently going to melt, according to this authoritative source, there's not anything we can do about it, and one way or another we'll have to do something about coastal cities, and that'll cost trillions.
It's been melting for a long time now. Sea level rise has been accelerating for at least 50 years.

But you're right - mitigation is expensive, and could have been avoided. But that ship sailed years ago. Still, it's important to know that it's cheaper than fixing infrastructure every time a big storm comes through. Sandy cost the east coast dearly, and that's only one storm.
 

Timcognito

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I don't know about peaking, but longer-term, prices will come down. Already solar is cheaper than other forms of energy and that will push down electricity bills. Scale brings prices down.
Yes and efficiency is up in solar panels and batteries, and efficiency in lighting and power is improving in devices. Again my panels and night-use/backup battery are on target for a six year pay off their initial cost with four years to go free electricity from the system, with some months a net producer.
 

Timcognito

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I'll bite the bullet for that install maybe next year.

These guys helped with my decision to go solar and work anywhere in the USA. They do not charge you for their service and get multiple quotes from suppliers and installers near you, anomalously if you like. So no one will call or visit you. They have free counselling to help you decide to do it or not, which quote is best technically and financially and should something go wrong with the execution during the install they will work with the seller on your behalf. That did not happen in my case as I worked with Tesla directly and settled any issues, mostly scheduling delays. I got 8 -10 quotes before choosing my system.
 

Blumlein 88

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These guys helped with my decision to go solar and work anywhere in the USA. They do not charge you for their service and get multiple quotes from suppliers and installers near you, anomalously if you like. So no one will call or visit you. They have free counselling to help you decide to do it or not, which quote is best technically and financially and should something go wrong with the execution during the install they will work with the seller on your behalf. That did not happen in my case as I worked with Tesla directly and settled any issues, mostly scheduling delays. I got 8 -10 quotes before choosing my system.
I used it once and never heard from anyone about anything.
 

Blumlein 88

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Just found the full interview with Elon Musk. I find it always iteresting to see he answers questions quite elegantly:
Thanks for posting this. I've seen interviews before and he is always clean, analytical and elegant in his thinking about problems. So no surprise he is successful. He obviously didn't like being branded a disruptor. He only wants to disrupt something if there is a benefit, not just to be iconoclastic.
 

xaviescacs

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That S curve he mentions as a mixture of exponential, linear and logarithmic smells like a logistic model, but I guess he didn't want to add yet another term.
 

Spocko

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These guys helped with my decision to go solar and work anywhere in the USA. They do not charge you for their service and get multiple quotes from suppliers and installers near you, anomalously if you like. So no one will call or visit you. They have free counselling to help you decide to do it or not, which quote is best technically and financially and should something go wrong with the execution during the install they will work with the seller on your behalf. That did not happen in my case as I worked with Tesla directly and settled any issues, mostly scheduling delays. I got 8 -10 quotes before choosing my system.
How funny is that, I just took them on as a sponsor LOL! Nice to know they do good work because I'll be using them too
 

Spocko

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Economically speaking, you pre-purchased your electricity upfront (bearing in mind the panel life efficiency and inverter(s)) when you bought the panels + install costs. That + your electric bill. I'd think your bill has a large portion of service charges rather than kW/h costs.
At some point, the up front costs are fully recouped over a period of years if you compare it to the current rates being charged/paid for the same amount of electricity used, and once fully amortized (however long that takes) it's the cost of maintenance/replacement of the inverter which is normally the first to go after 10 years depending on the build quality and local climate.
 

Colonel7

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At some point, the up front costs are fully recouped over a period of years if you compare it to the current rates being charged/paid for the same amount of electricity used, and once fully amortized (however long that takes) it's the cost of maintenance/replacement of the inverter which is normally the first to go after 10 years depending on the build quality and local climate.
You are correct on that but it depends largely on 2 factors1) subsidies and 2)the cost of electricity from your provider. The higher the cost paid to the utility by kWhthe faster you recoup. None of these points brings in how much your dollars paid upfront would have compared fo investing separately and pay as you go.
 

Timcognito

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You are correct on that but it depends largely on 2 factors1) subsidies and 2)the cost of electricity from your provider. The higher the cost paid to the utility by kWhthe faster you recoup. None of these points brings in how much your dollars paid upfront would have compared fo investing separately and pay as you go.
Not sure what you saying here but I'm on track for getting my money back in six and half years because I bought my system. Its returning $120 -$200/month with $2500 bundling discount (panels and backup battery) plus $4600 tax credit from US gov on a $19500 system cost. Its on target so far for what was calculated before I bought it.
 

Blumlein 88

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Not sure what you saying here but I'm on track for getting my money back in six and half years because I bought my system. Its returning $120 -$200/month with $2500 bundling discount (panels and backup battery) plus $4600 tax credit from US gov on a $19500 system cost. Its on target so far for what was calculated before I bought it.
Where I live electric rates are very low. Lots of hydroelectric. Plus the state requires a permit making you pay a fee every month to have solar. Plus any excess you put back on the grid the power company is allowed to pay only 20% of your electricity rates. Effectively the rules were designed so solar at best breaks even vs not having it. You end up where it never pays off or maybe it pays off in 40 years depending upon what happens.
 
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