Zero-emission vehicles, their batteries & subsidies/rebates for them.- No politics regarding the subsidies!

[Doodski]

There's a weird little whine when I switch it on - quiet, but very "electronic" - but that's inaudible once rolling, underneath muted air rush and a little tire noise. Overall it's about as quiet as my Bentley, which has 300lb of sound deadening in it.

Wow... that's quiet. It must be very nice to operate and trip around town in as well as travelling on the highway.

 

[rdenney]

The traffic jam is irrelevant.

Not too much power (i.e., nearly zero) being consumed, if you are literally stuck in a traffic jam. It's not like you have an IC engine to keep running. So, no, that won't affect your range at all. (Though it does have a deleterious effect on your instantaneous "Whr/mi" — funny things happen when the denominator of any fraction goes to zero.)

Maybe this needs to be explained to ICE drivers: they think of inching along in snarled traffic as the least fuel efficient (and most frustrating) way to go a certain distance, whereas tooling along at highway speeds is the most fuel-efficient. In an EV, the opposite is the case: inching along in snarled traffic is the most efficient (though still frustrating), while driving at highway speeds is the least efficient.

Nevermind.

Rick “already answered” Denney

 

[Suffolkhifinut]

A more specific answer. Tesla model 3's in Texas, in the sun on days above 95 degrees were found to use about 2kw-hrs per hour for AC. I use the Tesla because that is the EV for which there is the most real world data. That car will go roughly 4 miles per kw-hr at highway speeds. So sitting still for 4 hrs in Texas you could lose 32 miles of range at highway speed. Or about 16 miles if you were going at speeds lower than 30 mph. As you are in the UK, you'll use less than this because it isn't so hot in the UK as in Texas.

IC fuel use varies a lot idling because the size of the engine is rather variable. A compact car will use about 1/4 gallon per hr with AC on, and a large car or pickup truck will use around 1/2 gallon per hour. So somewhere between 1 to 2 gallons of fuel. You won't use much less than this even in the cooler UK as the amount used by the AC above idling without AC is around 10% difference. So again the EV will be at least as good and probably better in such a situation.

Thanks!

 

[samsa]

Here's one guy who made some measurements in his Model S:

• Ambient Temp: 106℉ (41℃)
• A/C set to 69℉ (20.5℃)
• Power-draw by the A/C: 1.07 kW

Now, the A/C is certainly capable of drawing a lot more power (up to 5 kW, I believe), and will do so when you first get into a hot car. But the steady-state consumption, even under conditions more extreme than you'll ever encounter in the UK, is about 1 kW, or 4mi of range/hr.

 

[DudleyDuoflush]

Here's one guy who made some measurements in his Model S:

• Ambient Temp: 106℉ (41℃)
• A/C set to 69℉ (20.5℃)
• Power-draw by the A/C: 1.07 kW

Now, the A/C is certainly capable of drawing a lot more power (up to 5 kW, I believe), and will do so when you first get into a hot car. But the steady-state consumption, even under conditions more extreme than you'll ever encounter in the UK, is about 1 kW, or 4mi of range/hr

I sat at a port for 3 hours yesterday with a top temp of 44C (really) and lost less than 10%. Traffice jams aren't a problem.

 

[MakeMineVinyl]

Late to this thread. I few years ago I leased a Fiat 500e for the insane cost of $99 per month. I absolutely loved its acceleration and general performance. Electric is unquestionably the future. The deal killer though is that I lived in LA at the time and given the relatively long distances I needed to travel, range anxiety was a real thing and I got bit a couple times. Traded it in for a gas pickup truck which by comparison drives and accelerates like a pig. Personally, I wish Hydrogen fuel cell became more of a thing.

 

[Doodski]

Late to this thread. I few years ago I leased a Fiat 500e for the insane cost of $99 per month. I absolutely loved its acceleration and general performance. Electric is unquestionably the future. The deal killer though is that I lived in LA at the time and given the relatively long distances I needed to travel, range anxiety was a real thing and I got bit a couple times. Traded it in for a gas pickup truck which by comparison drives and accelerates like a pig. Personally, I wish Hydrogen fuel cell became more of a thing.

Hydrogen generation facilities are being constructed and I don't know where the market is because there are so few hydrogen vehicles. Baffles my mind.

 

[MakeMineVinyl]

Hydrogen generation facilities are being constructed and I don't know where the market is because there are so few hydrogen vehicles. Baffles my mind.

There was only one Hydrogen filling station anywhere near where I lived. Not very much of a solution. I don't think I ever saw more than one car there ever, and most of the time there were none.

 

[Doodski]

There was only one Hydrogen filling station anywhere near where I lived. Not very much of a solution. I don't think I ever saw more than one car there ever, and most of the time there were none.

In Alberta a major hydrogen generating plant is supposed to be up and running by ~2024. Frack towers are already constructed and being delivered by rail. The apparent idea is to supply hydrogen for buses, heavy trucks, small vehicles and for electricity generation. Again I am a bit baffled because the cities have already bought into and have EV buses coming from the USA. Perhaps the limiting factor at this time is supply of hydrogen and the vehicle manufacturers will supply hydrogen powered vehicles after the supply is built?

 

[MakeMineVinyl]

In Alberta a major hydrogen generating plant is supposed to be up and running by ~2024. Frack towers are already constructed and being delivered by rail. The apparent idea is to supply hydrogen for buses, heavy trucks, small vehicles and for electricity generation. Again I am a bit baffled because the cities have already bought into and have EV buses coming from the USA. Perhaps the limiting factor at this time is supply of hydrogen and the vehicle manufacturers will supply hydrogen powered vehicles after the supply is built?

It baffles me too. After all, Hydrogen fuel cell technology has been used for decades, and apart from that mixup on Apollo 13, is relatively safe from what I understand. Battery packs on the other hand scare the hell out of me to be honest. I know they have a good safety record, but still....

 

[Doodski]

Battery packs on the other hand scare the hell out of me to be honest.

Me as well.

I know they have a good safety record

But do they. Vehicle fires with lithium batteries are happening and have happened.

 

[MakeMineVinyl]

Me as well.

But do they. Vehicle fires with lithium batteries are happening and have happened.

Yes, that's why they scare me. Statistically these fires/explosions are rare, but for the person who's house burns down because of them, not so rare.

I've also had hinky things happen with Lithium batteries in a couple phones I've owned. Just last month, a friend's Bluetooth speaker which has Lithium batteries caught fire out of the blue and we had to douse it in a bucket of water.

So yes, scary.

 

[Doodski]

Yes, that's why they scare me. Statistically these fires/explosions are rare, but for the person who's house burns down because of them, not so rare.

I've also had hinky things happen with Lithium batteries in a couple phones I've owned. Just last month, a friend's Bluetooth speaker which has Lithium batteries caught fire out of the blue and we had to douse it in a bucket of water.

So yes, scary.

Wowowow. That's scary... I tossed out all my old cel tels and unused lithium batteries due to the risk. No sense having it laying about or in drawers for no real reason. I thought lithium burning in water creates lotsa very hot steam? I guess with enough water it will suck the heat out of the lithium and that's 1 of the 3 sides of the fire fighting triangle.

 

[MakeMineVinyl]

Wowowow. That's scary... I tossed out all my old cel tels and unused lithium batteries due to the risk. No sense having it laying about or in drawers for no real reason. I thought lithium burning in water creates lotsa very hot steam? I guess with enough water it will suck the heat out of the lithium and that's 1 of the 3 sides of the fire fighting triangle.

Throwing it in a bucket of water was just a reflex thing. I don't know what one should do actually other than do the 'duck and cover' thing which I rehearsed in my youth.

 

[Doodski]

Throwing it in a bucket of water was just a reflex thing. I don't know what one should do actually other than do the 'duck and cover' thing which I rehearsed in my youth.

Well it turned out OK so you must have done the right thing and I see fire fighters using lotsa water on the car fires although they stated some of the car fires where so bad it took hours to put out the battery fire.

 

[MakeMineVinyl]

Well it turned out OK so you must have done the right thing and I see fire fighters using lotsa water on the car fires although they stated some of the car fires where so bad it took hours to put out the battery fire.

C_h_e_r_n_o_b_y_l

 

[Doodski]

C_h_e_r_n_o_b_y_l

Yeah, a mini version.

 

[Ron Texas]

GM just raised prices on the Hummer EV by $6,000, around 6%. One problem I see is with a rush to get EV's on the road rapidly there might not be enough lithium and other raw materials to go around. Tesla had several price increases recently.

 

[Doodski]

GM just raised prices on the Hummer EV by $6,000, around 6%. One problem I see is with a rush to get EV's on the road rapidly there might not be enough lithium and other raw materials to go around. Tesla had several price increases recently.

A major lithium deposit in Ontario is to be developed pretty quickly. The road to it is in progress and that will supply some major battery manufacturing operations. It's underway.

 

[Ron Texas]

A major lithium deposit in Ontario is to be developed pretty quickly. The road to it is in progress and that will supply some major battery manufacturing operations. It's underway.

There's a lot of lithium deposits even in the US, but developing the mines takes time. Do you know the time frame?