Hurray For Hydrogen: This New Ohio Power Plant Successfully Used Hydrogen To Generate Electricity | GE News
Hurray For Hydrogen: This New Ohio Power Plant Successfully Used Hydrogen To Generate Electricity
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Zero-emission vehicles, their batteries & subsidies/rebates for them.- No politics regarding the subsidies!
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Wowow! Hydrogen is coming and peeps all over think it is a dream and not coming...lol. Just wait till a hydrogen powered aircraft or a big train engine is working a route.Hurray For Hydrogen: This New Ohio Power Plant Successfully Used Hydrogen To Generate Electricity | GE News
Hurray For Hydrogen: This New Ohio Power Plant Successfully Used Hydrogen To Generate Electricitywww.ge.com
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There is work underway with the final goal to have the entire city that I live in hydrogen heated and powered. A "Hydrogen Hub" is already underway and the hydrogen generation facilities are under construction. Next is the heavy rail railyard going hydrogen.Hurray For Hydrogen: This New Ohio Power Plant Successfully Used Hydrogen To Generate Electricity | GE News
Hurray For Hydrogen: This New Ohio Power Plant Successfully Used Hydrogen To Generate Electricity
Hurray For Hydrogen: This New Ohio Power Plant Successfully Used Hydrogen To Generate Electricity | GE News
Hurray For Hydrogen: This New Ohio Power Plant Successfully Used Hydrogen To Generate Electricity
Not an expert in Energy but an engineer. I wonder what does Hydrogen brings to the table. From what I understand, it comes mostly from electrolysis.. How is the "electro" generated? There is no perfect conversion thus we are left with a product that consumes a lot of energy so that it can produce ... energy? I am lost. Can someone explain this to me?
Peace.
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There are varying kinds of hydrogen generation. One does use electrolysis and another blue hydrogen is when extracting from natural gas and the carbon is sequestered and injected underground.
The hydrogen economy is a replacement for train ICE, shipping ICE, trucking ICE etc. Heavy ICE use industry needs a fuel because electricity is not going to work via batteries.
But that's a purely political matter - which we should not discuss here in this forum. The resources and technology are there (for first world countries and we should do everything we can to give poorer countries more time for the transition).
The impairment of power grid stability due to the expansion of renewable energy was and is a frequently used false argument by opponents of renewable energy expansion in Germany.
The fair distribution of funds for the maintenance of the power grid is a political matter.
For a municipality, grid stability is the top priority, because only then will new businesses and residents settle - that is one of the reasons for municipalities to operate the power grids themselves again and they are more responsive when the demands on the power grid change due to private photovoltaic installations.
For a private investor, profit comes first. So the the step backwards was to privatize it in the first place
Suffolkhifinut
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I wasn’t even thinking of other countries, all over Europe including the UK there are many poor people, they can’t be left without access to affordable energy.But that's a purely political matter - which we should not discuss here in this forum. The resources and technology are there (for first world countries and we should do everything we can to give poorer countries more time for the transition).
The impairment of power grid stability due to the expansion of renewable energy was and is a frequently used false argument by opponents of renewable energy expansion in Germany.
The fair distribution of funds for the maintenance of the power grid is a political matter.
For a municipality, grid stability is the top priority, because only then will new businesses and residents settle - that is one of the reasons for municipalities to operate the power grids themselves again and they are more responsive when the demands on the power grid change due to private photovoltaic installations.
For a private investor, profit comes first. So the the step backwards was to privatize it in the first place
on your second point, can’t figure out your reasoning? Power grid stability what do you mean by that? The power grid must be able to supply power on demand, regardless of the generation source.
Why would you want municipal authorities to petition the governmrnt for preferential treatment? A formula for ‘Pork barrel politics.’
Marc v E
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I very much respect your enthusiasm.
There is no need for hydrogen trains. Or in fact anything that moves using hydrogen.
It's mainly useful in the chemical industry to make fertilizer. Almost all can be done by electricity or batteries. See the explainer video.
For 1 tanker truck filled with petrol you would need 14 to get the same amount of energy. From a car/ train's perspective: to get hydrogen from source to wheel, you basically loose 85% iirc. If you use electricity you loose 15%. Scientifically and economically speaking there's no contest. Watch this video from a Cambridge professor; all based on science and very easy to digest: (starts at 6:15)
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I'd say the proper analogy for hydrogen as fuel is a battery rather than a primary source such as gasoline. That is, a primary source such as solar, wind, or whatever is used to charge a battery and, by direct analogy, a primary source is used to generate "green", "pink" or "yellow hydrogen by electrolysis.
Note that hydrogen is the highest density fuel there is by mass, however its energy density by volume, even in liquid form, isn't nearly as good as gasoline.
Based on comments in @Marc v E 's link, it's mainly the fossil fuel industry that is promoting hydrogen as a propulsion or heating fuel -- which strikes me as more than a little disingenuous since using hydrogen that way is less carbon efficient than using the fossil fuels directly.
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Hydrogen is needed as a raw material for the synthesis of basic chemicals without the industry (pharmaceuticals, fertilizers, dyes, plastics...) cannot produce - see also hydrogen latter.
I have my doubts that hydrogen in its current form, in 700 bar pressure tanks, will prevail in fuel cell vehicles - IMO, these are mobile time bombs
However, there are new approaches to storing hydrogen. If a process can be implemented in large-scale production, then a new era is likely to begin.
A energy dense hydrogen paste, for example, appears to be promising - a first trial production plant is scheduled to go into operation in 2023 (scheduled was 2021).
In the rich industrialized nations, this is "only" a distribution problem - a political matter.
The power grid itself cannot store energy; for every LED that is switched on, power must be fed into the grid from somewhere.
With a few large producers, nationwide coordination is easier than with many independent small producers.
Therefore, the argumentation was that this will lead to a collapse of the power grid - obviously that doesn't happened.
There is no preferential treatment, fees are charged for the use of the electricity grid (7.52ct/kWh net in GER) and the end consumer (i.e. us) pays for it. But the state has to set the legal framework for a fair distribution (how will the revenues be distributed among the operators of the high voltage, medium voltage and low voltage electricity grids).
Suffolkhifinut
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How is having no money to pay for energy a distribution problem? Unless you are following Karl Marx’s teachings.
Who said the grid stores energy? It is merely there to transmit and distribute energy.
To paraphrase a popular song ‘Those that have will get!’
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I think the battery analogy is the best one for hydrogen. There are several posts here complaining about wasted solar and wind when production is high and demand is low. Excess renewable electricity can be used to generate clean or green hydrogen however some more development is needed to improve efficiencies. That said, I don't think a for profit companies like GE and Toyota would spend as much as they are if they didn't believe it was achievable. Not sure we will see it in cars as it has all the distribution issues that gasoline has and which the lack there of makes electric more enticing even if it requires grid enhancements.
I'm not going to have a political discussion with you....
The cost price for solar power is currently 3-5ct/kWh, wind power onshore and offshore 4-8ct/kWh, and 7-12ct/kWh respectively. Some of the energy should be stored for the "Dunkelflaute", for which you can add another 2-6ct/kWh.
For comparison, in Hinkley Point (UK), the French EDF is building two EPR (European Pressurized Reactor) pressurized water reactors, with a guaranteed purchase price of 92.5 English pounds per megawatt hour (plus inflation compensation), which corresponds to 10.6ct/kWh (without inflation compensation). However, this price is supposedly no longer cost-covering, since construction already costs 30 billion euros and there are problems with operational safety (which will add to costs).
But no matter which way you go for a CO2-neutral future, electricity prices don't have to be high - if they are high, it's a political matter.
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Canadian company Ballard Power (Which has been working on hydrogen fuel cells in Vancouver since roughly about 1990) supplied technology to a company in Portugal to do what you are describing. Solar to green hydrogen for storage and use during peak demand periods.
Portugal switches on first solar-to-hydrogen plant
The Portuguese Fusion Fuel and Ballard Power have announced the successful commissioning of the H2Évora plant on Portugal The grid-connected pilot project will produce an estimated 15 tons of green hydrogen per year.
www.pv-magazine.com
I've heard a good many times that intermittent power sources, viz. wind and solar alone cannot efficiently be used to provide grid power. Of course, one solution would be nuclear power. Safe, efficient, reasonably priced nuclear power is possible today far more so than decades ago when the Three Mile Island or Chernobyl reactors where build.Canadian company Ballard Power (Which has been working on hydrogen fuel cells in Vancouver since roughly about 1990) supplied technology to a company in Portugal to do what you are describing. Solar to green hydrogen for storage and use during peak demand periods.
Portugal switches on first solar-to-hydrogen plant
The Portuguese Fusion Fuel and Ballard Power have announced the successful commissioning of the H2Évora plant on Portugal The grid-connected pilot project will produce an estimated 15 tons of green hydrogen per year.
But another solution is grid-integrated battery storage. As already discussed, hydrogen is best thought of as battery storage mechanism. Thus "green" hydrogen from wind or solar would seem a powerful option for grid storage.
So I say it's probably better to meet the war-created gas and oil shortage crisis by rapidly pursuing grid storage options fueled by renewal energy sources, than to exclusively develop new fossil fuel sources and infrastructure. The problem is that the fossil fuel industry still has far more political leverage at this time than does the green energy sector.
Marc v E
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Marc v E
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Predicting disruption timeline of EVs based on previous disruptions:
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Canadian Pacific Railway's hydrogen-powered locomotive makes first revenue run.
www.trains.com
Canadian Pacific’s hydrogen-powered locomotive makes first revenue run - Trains
NEW YORK — Canadian Pacific’s experimental hydrogen-powered locomotive made its maiden revenue run last month in Calgary, Alberta, taking the first step in determining whether the technology could one day replace diesel-electric locomotives. “I’ll tell you, the excitement around it, the...
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