YouTube Audio Reviewer Tier List - Jan 2023 Edition

[I know (almost) nothing]

What, nobody likes GR Reasearch?

 

[Deleted member 48726]

Ironic considering Crinacle's own headphone/IEM 'Technical Grade' ratings are beyond useless, (knowingly) perpetuating pseudoscience and primarily just a metric of his pricing bias.

Wow! -That's cunning of him!
Knowingly doing so makes it a lot worse than the people who actually believe what they say. They are at least being honest to themselves and also to others (to the best of their knowledge).

What, nobody likes GR Reasearch?

Who? -What are they researching?

 

[MattHooper]

And here is the list of reviewers I can think of, in alphabetical order. If you are game, you can include or exclude whomever you want, this is for reference only.

• BadGuyGoodRewiews
• CheapAudioMan
• Chrono
• Crinicle
• Currawong
• DankPods
• Darko
• DMS
• Gizaudio
• Goldensound
• iiwi
• Joshua Velor
• Julian Krause
• LTT / Linus
• Precog
• Resolve
• Super*Review
• Zeos

Strangely enough, even as someone who looks at a fair number of youtube audio channels, I hadn't heard of the majority of those listed above.
(I think I recognized only Dark, Cheap Audio Man and I've heard of Goldensound but don't know if I've visited)

 

[MattHooper]

What, nobody likes GR Reasearch?

"I wonder if Danny will find anything wrong with this one...?...

 

[IAtaman]

Strangely enough, even as someone who looks at a fair number of youtube audio channels, I hadn't heard of the majority of those listed above.
(I think I recognized only Dark, Cheap Audio Man and I've heard of Goldensound but don't know if I've visited)

Interesting isn't it. As I said, seems like everyone has a different set of people in mind when they say YT audio reviewers.

Also interesting; looks like people know more about the reviewers they dislike than the ones they might actually enjoy. There is something addictive about anger isn't there

Goldensound is an interesting case. He is one of those who has his own YT channel, and also does reviews on headphones.com. Either he has an AP555 himself, or have access to one through headphones.com, not sure which. Nevertheless he publishes quite detailed measurement reports on amps, DACs and such. I have seen a video of him discussing Amir's choices on measurement protocol for example. And then next week he turns around and talks about the sound of DACs and amps. Interesting guy.

 

[Raxumit]

Cheap Audio Man drives me nuts because he often never even shows the device on, let alone plugged in and walked through its paces. Ok, I get if you don't have the gear to measure, and I'll tolerate your schlubby subjectivity if you'll show me something I can't get from the Amazon page. But FFS show the UI, walk through the modes!

Darko is a salesman, without a doubt, but I like him despite that. We're a similar cohort in age and music taste, and he looks like a German friend of mine, so he passes some parasocial checks for me that other guys don't. He also has celebrated the Squeezebox/Slimserver ecosystem that I've loved for years, even in the absence of a vendor to reward him for it. He's sporadically very useful - his recent room treatment videos are really interesting and instructive and backed up by real measurement and data, as others have already given him credit for in this thread.

Still, Darko produced this April Fools video with a perfectly straight face:

Does he know the wine-tasting golden-ear bafflegab he normally dispenses is horsecrap? I really wonder, how many reviewers actually believe their own hype? Are there at least a few who are actively making crap up, and KNOW it?

 

[bkatbamna]

My favorite channels are:
1. Classics and vinyl: beautiful music on pristine Lps using expensive cartridges.
2. Vinyl Translators: Classical music played using various cartridges from the '60s and '70s. No blues or jazz: I'm in.
3. Look and Listen_Vintage Cartridge: he has videos playing the same song using cartridges from the '60s and '70s. Very useful to compare and great sound using headphones.

As far as reviews, I trust very few. They stopped drug companies from handing $2 pens because it could unduly influence selection of medications, getting components to review and then being able to buy them at a huge discount will have some unconscious influence. That being said, I do trust this site and the stereophile measurements. For example, the latest review of a $15,000 tube amp shows a 20dB difference in distortion between the left and right channel.

 

[MattHooper]

he's like a big anime/manga fan and yeah it can look out of place or awkward at times.
his shooting room (or audio corner?) is like my audio wet dream. Realistically I would never need or be able to use that many headphones, but damn the collection looks more impressive than all the audio shops I've been to.

egads! We certainly have different audio wet dreams. They look more like my nightmares

I started going through the list of channels I'm not familiar with and when I hit a few videos from this guy...yeesh...something about the whole set up, the ultra-crowded little basement-like spaces, the POV video, the weird art...not only did I find it all off-putting aesthetically, it was off-kilter enough to remind me of some of the classic RedLetterMedia movie review videos.

I've seen enough from that channel, I think...

(Also I don't think I'm his audiophile demographic in terms of the items he seems to review anyway).

 

[IAtaman]

CanJam NY video of headphones.com

• Crinacle has a new project
• Zeos is as much into measurements as he is into waifus
• Oratory1990 is not myth perpetuated by a group of devotees, but an actual person!
• Resolve click baited Sean Olive.

Here is the YT link.

 

[Endibol]

I was shocked how frail Hans looked in one of his recent videos. He has really aged as of late. Made me think how long I can do this before I look that way!

I think Hans is ill. Remember he posted a video about a treatment he received a year ago or so? I think it’s Parkinson or something similar.
Although I criticize him a lot I do feel sorry for him and admire the fact that he keeps on going..

Edit: Hans reported about a treatment for Essential Tremor. Here is the link to his video about it:

 

[IAtaman]

Sean Olive's interview with Resolve.

 

[IAtaman]

That is my fault, and I apologize for it.

I admit I not only did not make correctly, but which I made by using a metaphor that was pejorative and possibly inappropriate

That is very earnest of you and I appreciate that. I thought the metaphor chosen to refer to a large community of people was inappropriate indeed, and I think it says a lot about you to be able to admit that possibility . If you would like to remove that metaphor all together from the forum, I would have no problem deleting my posts referring to it, including this one.

For my part, I also have to admit that I came to learn YT Audio Reviewer might bring a wide variety of profiles to mind compared to what I was thinking when I started this thread. And depending on the channels you come across, I do see how one might be convinced that it is useluess to expect any valuable insight from YT.

 

[MattHooper]

4) My views (and the foundations of them) go back many years, but the distillation is this: Subjectivism is worthless. It's worthless as regards audio, it's worthless as regards politics and it's worthless as regards science. It's worthless because it's a masquerade; it's personal opinion, frequently unsupported and unsupportable, masquerading as authoritative information. If the listener or reader is not properly grounded in the subject matter being covered by the subjective opinion, they can be (and frequently are) misled and deceived, and not to any small degree.

Jim

Out of curiosity: Do you go through life disregarding anything anyone ever says that is not properly, scientifically vetted?

Have you ever chosen to eat at a restaurant based on reviews, or the opinion of someone you know? Do you ever research reviews for vacations? Places to stay on trips? How about cooking recipes? Do you require scientific vetting of every step before accepting anyone's recipe? For almost any consumer product or activity, there are huge resources for people exchanging their experience. Do you just disregard this form of information exchange...or is your disregard of subjective reports confined to audio gear for some reason?

 

[Prana Ferox]

Thanks for this as well, I did not know about Archimago. Read a few of his reviews, good content but a blog in 2022.. It is a hard format to get popular with.

Personally, I find YouTube an astonishingly slow way to get the facts I need even if I double the playback speed.

I check Archimago on occasion even though I'm generally not interested in his subject matter. I can read the words (and illustrations etc) of one of his posts in a minute or two. If he gets on a subject or tangent I don't care about, I skip the paragraph.

I approximately never watch Youtube vids on this sort of stuff, partly because the videos take so long and are full of fluff and difficult-to-skip 'musings', and partially because I assume the fraction of people willing and able to go through the effort of video production that aren't in some way doing it for the money is vanishingly small. That's perfectly OK if you're watching a video for a process that needs to be demonstrated in sequence, but wrecks the value of a video of a thing.

 

[IAtaman]

If I read you correctly, you evidently believe that subjective information - on various subjects, not just audio - is legitimate, and thus dissemination on YouTube is also legitimate.

I don't want to turn this conversation into a philisophy of science topic, however I think it would be very 4th century BC to believe there are ultimalte truths in life (or in science) waiting to be uncovered, and that objectivity in its pure meaning is actually possible. We made a lot of progress on understanding how we construct information from data since Plato's time, and I do subscribe to the modern notion that current science is merely a consensus, serving its time until it gets shifted out by the next paradigm.

In a more general, everyday meaning of the word objective that also applies to audio, yes, I do value objective information. I wish there was more of it. I wish there were more sources of it. And yes, I do value subjective information, on various subjects, not just audio, as well, like every single other person on this planet I believe.

It would be very naive to think we know enough about everything important in life to be able to convert that knowledge into a set of metrics which we can measure, and use that measurement to make decisions . A lot of useful and therefore valuable information comes in the form of subjective. Not just for mundane, simple things either - even in medicine. I would wager that if we go and check, for at least 10% of FDA approved medication available for use, method of action would be "not fully known". Take Paracetamol, you can buy it of the shelf and give to your kids if they have fever, and it would most likely work. If you go to a hospital, doctos would prescribe it. Mechanism of action : not fully known. I know, not exactly comparable to audio, but still makes a point doesn't it. A more close to home example, our beloved Harman target itself is imperical and subjective. Trusting only objective information and disregarding everything subjective would be extrememly non practical in my opinion because when we don't know for sure, we make do with what we know, and there are a lot of things in life we don't know.

And finally, on as practical as possible sense (and as I said previously on this thread), there is a lot to know about a product that a measurement report can not possibly tell you. Even for electronics. For headphones and IEMs, measurement is half of the story. I would not read an amp review that is not based on measurements and I would not buy a headphone without reading or watching a review that touces on subjective information. Hope this clarifies what I believe.

 

[Jeromeof]

Other than a small few e.g. Erin obviously, and Resolv and Crinical (who both take measurements seriously ) - I believe YouTube reviews should only be used for entertainment purposes. I find them very similar to the "old days" when I might pop into a audio shop to check out the new equipment - but then have to listen too (but ignore) the sales person who was running over to me to try and tell me how great something that he was getting commission on would sound. Sadly in the city where I live there are maybe 2 of those stops left so its left to watching these videos to get a 'feel' for something.

So If the subject matter of the video is a new amp / receiver / speaker / headphone / IEM that you might like (and you have no opportunity to see it in person) - watch the video - but ignore the "sales" person opinion. Taking this analogy forward I see say Gutenberg as a audio store on 5th Avenue (lots of exotic stuff I can't approach but nice too see), or a British Audiophile (like a video to Tottenham Court Road in London - where the Audio stores used to be in London) and then TheCheapAudioman is like BestBuy (or maybe Richersounds for those from the UK).

 

[DonR]

I like equipment reviews that touch on as many factors as possible, preferably separated from each other. Measurements are necessary because manufacturers are not forthcoming or perhaps not even forthright with them. An objective physical analysis is also very welcome: features, functions, materials, spacing and even "feel". Subjective impressions I discount almost entirely as it says more about the reviewer's internal biases than it does about the equipment. Unfortunately, 99% of youtube reviews seem to put the majority of their effort into the latter.

 

[MattHooper]

I like equipment reviews that touch on as many factors as possible, preferably separated from each other. Measurements are necessary because manufacturers are not forthcoming or perhaps not even forthright with them.

I've always felt Stereophile's measurements contributed something very valuable there: testing the spec claims by manufactures. Some of the results are fairly shocking in terms of how far short various products fall from their stated specs - speaker sensitivity and especially amplifier output (especially tube amps). That's really valuable stuff to know.

As to youtube reviewers (and subjective reviews) I get it. For a certain mind-set I guess dry discussion of measurements a perfectly satisfactory. But hobbies are very often communal, and there's a shoot-the-sh*t aspect with fellow enthusiasts that can be really important to many. The subjective review crowd gets this and supplies a bunch of that, the sort of human side of just owning and "experiencing" using gear. It's also why many subjective reviews will involve personal stories or what may seem to be irrelevant-to-the-product-at-hand details. It's a sharing of experience and often of personal philosophy thing, which many audiophiles like to read. Or watch, in videos. Steve G's video interviews of audiophiles are very popular for good reason.

 

[DonR]

I've always felt Stereophile's measurements contributed something very valuable there: testing the spec claims by manufactures. Some of the results are fairly shocking in terms of how far short various products fall from their stated specs - speaker sensitivity and especially amplifier output (especially tube amps). That's really valuable stuff to know.

As to youtube reviewers (and subjective reviews) I get it. For a certain mind-set I guess dry discussion of measurements a perfectly satisfactory. But hobbies are very often communal, and there's a shoot-the-sh*t aspect with fellow enthusiasts that can be really important to many. The subjective review crowd gets this and supplies a bunch of that, the sort of human side of just owning and "experiencing" using gear. It's also why many subjective reviews will involve personal stories or what may seem to be irrelevant-to-the-product-at-hand details. It's a sharing of experience and often of personal philosophy thing, which many audiophiles like to read. Or watch, in videos. Steve G's video interviews of audiophiles are very popular for good reason.

As entertainment, I can understand that even if such things are not to my taste but I just can't get anything useful from someone telling me a particular DAC was "dry", "clinical" or "highly musical", especially if such phrases are simply repeated because that is what other reviewers also said about that product. It is impossible to separate personal bias from reality in such situations so they contain no useful information, IMO.

 

[IAtaman]

You may go back and expurgate your posts (or not) as you see fit.

I did. If I missed anything let me know please.

I would like to point out that my apology was not aimed solely at you.

Yes of course. I am not a reviewer so never thought I was owed one.