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Your Top 5 Demo / Test Tracks

Blumlein 88

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#1. Pink Noise

This reminds me of an idea. Maybe all the audiophile stuff that seems batty isn't. We may have quantum level effects after all. Perhaps there is a thing called dark noise which makes up 86% of the acoustical universe, but we can't find it, hear it or measure it. Yet it sometimes weakly interacts with normal matter in the air. Now I only need to produce product on the idea and then PROFIT!
 

Blumlein 88

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#1. Pink Noise

On a more serious note, pink noise is a good quick test to tell you if things are quite close or rather different. But beyond that it sometimes is hard to judge which part is different. I have at times heavily filtered pink noise into two octave wide portions. So those are still pretty revealing and you quickly can zero in on which area say two speakers sound quite different from each other. That is only 5 tracks to cover all 10 octaves. If subjective reviewers had a reference speaker and would give us a similarity rating for those 5 tracks even while sighted I think it would illuminate much more than the typical wordy flowery prose.
 

fas42

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It's all very well testing for soundstage and where things should be but there is no telling whether the system has been setup properly..

There are so many mitigating factors to auditioning kit in unfamiliar environments it's just as likely to lead you to false conclusions than anything universally definite.
If in the showroom, completely unfamiliar everything, probably the two key things are to see if it handles "big" stuff, driven hard, without falling to pieces - and whether it's a nasty load, requiring an extremely capable amplifier to produce solid SPLs - you stress test, and immediately cross the wusses off the list. Everything else can be sorted out later ...
 

RayDunzl

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fas42

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The good point about pink noise is that it has no "meaning" - you can't react to it emotionally ... hopefully!! :p That's not the case with music, it triggers responses - so, one has to switch into a different mode when using such: you're listening to a test signal designed to provoke poor behaviour from the system; it's like listening for artifacts in low rate mp3 encoding.
 

Sal1950

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It's all very well testing for soundstage and where things should be but there is no telling whether the system has been setup properly..

There are so many mitigating factors to auditioning kit in unfamiliar environments it's just as likely to lead you to false conclusions than anything universally definite.
This is all very shaky stuff.
You walk into up to any completely strange system, plug your fav recordings into it, and hear what?
Your expected biases of the front end, amp, speakers, etc etc? A completely unfamiliar room?
We talk about this stuff over and over, how the ear/brain interface can't be trusted unless we remove sighted known influences from the equation.
All you can hope for is a best guess at how it sounds different from your known memory. :confused:
You might be able to get a general idea on a speaker in question where gross differences are possible. as to anything before it,
Fugeddaboudit
 

Thomas savage

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If in the showroom, completely unfamiliar everything, probably the two key things are to see if it handles "big" stuff, driven hard, without falling to pieces - and whether it's a nasty load, requiring an extremely capable amplifier to produce solid SPLs - you stress test, and immediately cross the wusses off the list. Everything else can be sorted out later ...
Umm, that mostly what I do with my music selection.. Mostly.
 
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watchnerd

watchnerd

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This is all very shaky stuff.
You walk into up to any completely strange system, plug your fav recordings into it, and hear what?
Your expected biases of the front end, amp, speakers, etc etc? A completely unfamiliar room?
We talk about this stuff over and over, how the ear/brain interface can't be trusted unless we remove sighted known influences from the equation.
All you can hope for is a best guess at how it sounds different from your known memory. :confused:
You might be able to get a general idea on a speaker in question where gross differences are possible. as to anything before it,
Fugeddaboudit

Trust my ears?

I demo stuff in show rooms using a mic and RTA.

Only way to eliminate sighted biases.
 

fas42

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Trust my ears?

I demo stuff in show rooms using a mic and RTA.

Only way to eliminate sighted biases.
One of the most curious things I've come across in the audio game is this neurosis about "sighted bias" - mine works back to front, I expect the more spectacular the system, the uglier it will sound - 30 years of listening has confirmed this 'bias', nearly every time. If people can't actually "hear" what a system is getting wrong or right, then what the hell are they doing in the audio field ... ?
 
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watchnerd

watchnerd

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One of the most curious things I've come across in the audio game is this neurosis about "sighted bias" - mine works back to front, I expect the more spectacular the system, the uglier it will sound - 30 years of listening has confirmed this 'bias', nearly every time. If people can't actually "hear" what a system is getting wrong or right, then what the hell are they doing in the audio field ... ?

Sight bias is unavoidable, even with trained listeners. Nobody is immune to it -- it's how our biology works.

There are multiple papers on this. Sean Olive has a series of blog posts. And if you're not into reading, watch this:

 

fas42

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Sorry, I'm very familiar with Ethan Winer, and his "standards" of sound - let's just say we're miles apart. If an 'expert' in audio says something I'm almost certain to disagree - for a variety of reasons ...
 
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watchnerd

watchnerd

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Sorry, I'm very familiar with Ethan Winer, and his "standards" of sound - let's just say we're miles apart. If an 'expert' in audio says something I'm almost certain to disagree - for a variety of reasons ...

Ethan is not the one to listen to on this topic; he's just the MC / moderator at the beginning.

It's James Johnston and Poppy Crum who are talking about the affects of consciousness on hearing.

Give it a listen. You might actually learn something.
 
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watchnerd

watchnerd

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This reminds me of an idea. Maybe all the audiophile stuff that seems batty isn't. We may have quantum level effects after all. Perhaps there is a thing called dark noise which makes up 86% of the acoustical universe, but we can't find it, hear it or measure it.

Good news...it's 2016 and now we can. They're called gravity waves. You can listen to them using LIGO.
 

fas42

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Give it a listen. You might actually learn something.
Sorry, that still is not going to work. I have heard, and read the arguments so many times I could do the patter myself - it's very much a case of doing a restricted level of testing, which confirms a set of assumptions about hearing, which are then extrapolated to include everything - if one can only see a small part of the picture then you devise experiments which confirm that POV, and learn nothing new. Overall, it's poor science - and a great shame that such is so ...
 
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watchnerd

watchnerd

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Sorry, that still is not going to work. I have heard, and read the arguments so many times I could do the patter myself - it's very much a case of doing a restricted level of testing, which confirms a set of assumptions about hearing, which are then extrapolated to include everything - if one can only see a small part of the picture then you devise experiments which confirm that POV, and learn nothing new. Overall, it's poor science - and a great shame that such is so ...

Well, I'm siding with all the professors and PhD researchers who consider it good science.
 

RayDunzl

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You still have a CD player?

I do too... and buy physical product to put in it. It's like the vinyl hobby, but even stupider, I suppose, to those that view it as stupid.
 

RayDunzl

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Well, I'm siding with all the professors and PhD researchers who consider it good science.

I tend to myself, but try to keep an open mind.

I'm having a struggle with some of their infatuation with "smooth, wide, dispersion" that seems to blur the direct sound with hash and leave an overhang of sound after the direct wave has passed (trying to look at that a little more closely right now).

I like my 'stats, which don't seem to have much "Science of Preference" appeal.
 

fas42

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Well, I'm siding with all the professors and PhD researchers who consider it good science.
I actually went off and read, very carefully, some of the material that all these ideas are based on - and the controls were poor, there were so many assumptions, key parameters were never considered. I shake my head every time I try to read them, because the holes in the thinking are so obvious ...
 
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