Your perfect component that doesn't exist

[Jas0_0]

Ok, first, this post comes with a heavy first world problem warning.

But...

Am I alone in feeling I have to compromise, and also sort of feeling that I shouldn't?

My system situation is almost catered for by what’s on the market but not quite (unless I spend frankly ridiculous £££).

Maybe I'm deluded, but I feel my audio needs are fairly typical for today's invested music lover (no 'a' word please). Two channels, streaming, a few records, a digital source, room correction.

And yet I still have to faff around with an inelegant cludge of boxes, routing, software, and cabling to get the usability and sound I want (which is, let's be honest and thanks in no small part to ASR, fabulous.)

So I thought I’d start this thread to find out if you out there are fully satisfied. And if not, to create a place to share what would make it so (in vain hope clever industry people will take pity and create our desired wonder boxes).

My perfect component would be a one-box preamp/DAC that has the following (and doesn't cost £35,000 - yes very funny Linn).

• DAC with USB, optical and coaxial digital ins
• Analogue preamp with enough gain for low output MC cartridges
• ADC
• DSP on all inputs (including analogue - Eversolo, why???)
  • Digital RIAA EQ
  • Parametric EQ - at least 10 bands per channel
  • Or better still a convolver with tens of thousands of taps
• Dynamic loudness (why does only RME do this for two channel... it's brilliant)
• Roon-ready network streamer
• Bluetooth
• AirPlay
• Balanced analogue ins and outs
• Great measurements across the board (obvs)

Several components come really close to doing all this at a reasonable price - RME, MiniDSP, Eversolo I applaud you. But each one lacks at least one vital element.

Have I missed something? If not, would someone kindly create it?

And am I alone?

 

[Timcognito]

One moment, please...

Plus phono amp is close

 

[chips666]

Keep it simple Nothing will ever be perfect Accept and enjoy the music...

 

[Jas0_0]

One moment, please...

Plus phono amp is close

Thanks for the suggestion... it's really close, but doesn't do MC carts or dynamic loudness. I sound like a spoilt brat.

 

[MattHooper]

My Kingdom For A Remote Volume Knob! can this be made?

I was watching an old Darko video in which he discussed his appreciation for being able to control an audio system with a remote volume knob. He gets to the "why" of this around 51 seconds in: I was like: YES! Someone gets me! I place a high value on the combination of ergonomics and...

www.audiosciencereview.com

The remote I had made came as close to perfect for my needs as I could get:

My Kingdom For A Remote Volume Knob! can this be made?

I’ve been using the Surface Dial to control volume through Roon using rooDial for a few months now. Occasionally it loses contact with the Rpi. Otherwise works really well. The ability to reach over and adjust volume without looking at anything and to stop the music with a press is very...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[Keith_W]

I am with you on that one. I want a FIR capable digital preamp/DAC with:

- inputs for analog, HDMI, MADI optical
- accepts standard .WAV files for convolution ... none of this proprietary rubbish
- 8 digital outputs (with option for adding more outputs)
- compatibility with Windows and Linux
- built-in streamer with Tidal / Qobuz / Chromecast support
- an app that runs on Android so that I can use my phone as a remote

Alas, such a preamp does not exist. I have assembled a solution but it's rather ugly, complex, and the whole thing is prone to failure thanks to bad updates, network glitches, or just standard unreliability of PC components.

 

[Chrispy]

Already have all the functionality I need but I don't bother with vinyl much let alone fussing with an mc cartridge. That bit about what you think is typical is pretty strange.

 

[Roland68]

I am with you on that one. I want a FIR capable digital preamp/DAC with:

- inputs for analog, HDMI, MADI optical
- accepts standard .WAV files for convolution ... none of this proprietary rubbish
- 8 digital outputs (with option for adding more outputs)
- compatibility with Windows and Linux
- built-in streamer with Tidal / Qobuz / Chromecast support
- an app that runs on Android so that I can use my phone as a remote

Alas, such a preamp does not exist. I have assembled a solution but it's rather ugly, complex, and the whole thing is prone to failure thanks to bad updates, network glitches, or just standard unreliability of PC components.

Just use reliable PC components/devices, e.g. HP Business or MACs. I have some devices at home and in our company that have been in daily use for over 10 years or run 24/7 without any failures.

 

[Roland68]

Ok, first, this post comes with a heavy first world problem warning.

But...

Am I alone in feeling I have to compromise, and also sort of feeling that I shouldn't?

My system situation is almost catered for by what’s on the market but not quite (unless I spend frankly ridiculous £££).

Maybe I'm deluded, but I feel my audio needs are fairly typical for today's invested music lover (no 'a' word please). Two channels, streaming, a few records, a digital source, room correction.

And yet I still have to faff around with an inelegant cludge of boxes, routing, software, and cabling to get the usability and sound I want (which is, let's be honest and thanks in no small part to ASR, fabulous.)

So I thought I’d start this thread to find out if you out there are fully satisfied. And if not, to create a place to share what would make it so (in vain hope clever industry people will take pity and create our desired wonder boxes).

My perfect component would be a one-box preamp/DAC that has the following (and doesn't cost £35,000 - yes very funny Linn).

• DAC with USB, optical and coaxial digital ins
• Analogue preamp with enough gain for low output MC cartridges
• ADC
• DSP on all inputs (including analogue - Eversolo, why???)
  • Digital RIAA EQ
  • Parametric EQ - at least 10 bands per channel
  • Or better still a convolver with tens of thousands of taps
• Dynamic loudness (why does only RME do this for two channel... it's brilliant)
• Roon-ready network streamer
• Bluetooth
• AirPlay
• Balanced analogue ins and outs
• Great measurements across the board (obvs)

Several components come really close to doing all this at a reasonable price - RME, MiniDSP, Eversolo I applaud you. But each one lacks at least one vital element.

Have I missed something? If not, would someone kindly create it?

And am I alone?

You are not alone and almost all manufacturers overlook this.
Linn is unfortunately expensive, but the Linn installation at this year's High End in Munich was the best sounding system for me, despite the absolutely terrible rooms.

If the big Eversolo does everything else, then get an MC phono amp, a switch option for multiple analog inputs if needed, and the E1DA Cosmos ADCiso as an ADC. It can hardly get any more perfect and better sounding than that.

Otherwise, do it yourself, computer with AcourateConvolver, analog input as described above, DAC, operation via tablet or remote control possible. Can be upgraded for future upgrades, independent, expandable.
In addition to DSP, room correction, EQ, etc., the speakers can also be fully activated at any time.

 

[Waxx]

I would still keep things seperate, especially because digital tech is still moving on the software level. So a perfect devices would be:

device 1: preamp/dsp/dac/streame

sinad +105dB over all parts
Input for usb, lan streaming trough app, AES67, SP/DIF, RCA analog, (phono and line) and XLR (balanced) analog (line)
Controls on device and trough an app on a computer or phone, OS independent (trough a vm or a webapp, preferable a VM in the device).
Must be able to be used with a NAS or a data server over land and wifi (as data storage).
2x8dsp with full FIR/biquad eq, limiting, delay, variable filters, room correction like DIRAC ... like a miniDSP or a Lake processor has, on all inputs including the analog, but with a bypbass modus for the analog inputs so the digital side can be avoided when needed.

8 outputs with toplevel dac that can be used with unbalanced (RCA) or balanced (XLR) outputs. And it must have a trigger system to power up the connected amps

Must be full operational with all controllable from the front, with dials and knobs, no complex menu's. The only thing that you really need a computer for would be advanced dsp, like room correction and so. It must come with a very easy to use measuring system with included microphone and stand.

Display and led indicators must be dimable untill full off, display most be oled and big enough to read everything, and the gui must have a dark background with light letters and graphs (white or an other light colour).

The software must include an easy intergration of streaming or music player apps and external plugins (vst and so) and be very similar in layout and operation as JRiver and support as many music formats as possible, and no version limits or forced updates as far as possible.

And this all reasonable priced for the average person, easy availeble and in an more oldskool industrial design, size of a 3U rack made of metal, but with full removable rack mounts. PSU should be a medical grade SMPS that is overbuild. It can be external, but should then also fit that format (rackmount, be silent and universal (can be used in all electric systems in the world). Cooling should be passive (no fans) and absolute silent.

Amps should be seperate from the preamp, be low distortion, but with adjustable levels of low harmonic distortion (to taste). But basic noise should be less than -105dB, and with the harmonic distortion module off, the whole amp should be like that. For the rest they should follow the physical format and psu style of the preamp, with XLR and RCA inputs per channel and Speakon and binding post outputs. PSU should be far overbuild so the amp never saturates on lack of power juice, even when driven to full power with a dry sinus at 30Hz. Several amp modules, each with their own psu can be combined in on case. And again, reasonable priced.

But i guess it will stay a dream, such a system. Even if someone will be able to make it, it will be very expensive, not reasonable priced...

 

[dualazmak]

I always dream for 16-Channel alternative for OKTO DAC8PRO, which would be possibly named as DAC16PRO(?), even though I know about MOTU 16A, MOTU 24 AO and other multichannel DAC/ADC units having 16-Ch or more capabilities, but I do not need their advanced AVB/DAT/ADAT pro functionality.

I have already discussed about this dream simple (affordable and excellent like DAC8PRO) 16-Ch-multichannel DAC in my posts here and here with conceptual drawing of the backside view that I dream of...

Spoiler: Possible/hopeful backside view of dream DAC16PRO(?) by OKTO

 

[dualazmak]

I would still keep things seperate, especially because digital tech is still moving on the software level. So a perfect devices would be:

device 1: preamp/dsp/dac/streame

sinad +105dB over all parts
Input for usb, lan streaming trough app, AES67, SP/DIF, RCA analog, (phono and line) and XLR (balanced) analog (line)
Controls on device and trough an app on a computer or phone, OS independent (trough a vm or a webapp, preferable a VM in the device).
Must be able to be used with a NAS or a data server over land and wifi (as data storage).
2x8dsp with full FIR/biquad eq, limiting, delay, variable filters, room correction like DIRAC ... like a miniDSP or a Lake processor has, on all inputs including the analog, but with a bypbass modus for the analog inputs so the digital side can be avoided when needed.

8 outputs with toplevel dac that can be used with unbalanced (RCA) or balanced (XLR) outputs. And it must have a trigger system to power up the connected amps

Must be full operational with all controllable from the front, with dials and knobs, no complex menu's. The only thing that you really need a computer for would be advanced dsp, like room correction and so. It must come with a very easy to use measuring system with included microphone and stand.

Display and led indicators must be dimable untill full off, display most be oled and big enough to read everything, and the gui must have a dark background with light letters and graphs (white or an other light colour).

The software must include an easy intergration of streaming or music player apps and external plugins (vst and so) and be very similar in layout and operation as JRiver and support as many music formats as possible, and no version limits or forced updates as far as possible.

And this all reasonable priced for the average person, easy availeble and in an more oldskool industrial design, size of a 3U rack made of metal, but with full removable rack mounts. PSU should be a medical grade SMPS that is overbuild. It can be external, but should then also fit that format (rackmount, be silent and universal (can be used in all electric systems in the world). Cooling should be passive (no fans) and absolute silent.

Amps should be seperate from the preamp, be low distortion, but with adjustable levels of low harmonic distortion (to taste). But basic noise should be less than -105dB, and with the harmonic distortion module off, the whole amp should be like that. For the rest they should follow the physical format and psu style of the preamp, with XLR and RCA inputs per channel and Speakon and binding post outputs. PSU should be far overbuild so the amp never saturates on lack of power juice, even when driven to full power with a dry sinus at 30Hz. Several amp modules, each with their own psu can be combined in on case. And again, reasonable priced.

But i guess it will stay a dream, such a system. Even if someone will be able to make it, it will be very expensive, not reasonable priced...

I essentially agree with you except for your demand of 8-Ch XLR and RCA output for which I would hope/prefer 16-Ch as I wrote in my above post #11.

And it must have a trigger system to power up the connected amps

At least in my case, I do not like "triggered power up for multiple amplifiers" mainly because of safety concerns. I rather prefer my own "startup/ignition sequences" and "shutdown sequences" just like as I recently updated them in the bottom of my post here on my project thread.

Spoiler

The latest system setup of my DSP-based multichannel multi-SP-driver multi-amplifier fully active audio rig, including updated startup/ignition sequences and shutdown sequences: as of June 26, 2024: #931

 

[nerdstrike]

I think you guys forgot laundry in your laundry lists!

 

[TonyJZX]

i'm not saying this is my idea of perfection but you can see where certain items get close

the Wiim Ultra with XLR and type-c would fill a huge hole in the market place

 

[Mart68]

Ok, first, this post comes with a heavy first world problem warning.

But...

Am I alone in feeling I have to compromise, and also sort of feeling that I shouldn't?

My system situation is almost catered for by what’s on the market but not quite (unless I spend frankly ridiculous £££).

Maybe I'm deluded, but I feel my audio needs are fairly typical for today's invested music lover (no 'a' word please). Two channels, streaming, a few records, a digital source, room correction.

And yet I still have to faff around with an inelegant cludge of boxes, routing, software, and cabling to get the usability and sound I want (which is, let's be honest and thanks in no small part to ASR, fabulous.)

So I thought I’d start this thread to find out if you out there are fully satisfied. And if not, to create a place to share what would make it so (in vain hope clever industry people will take pity and create our desired wonder boxes).

My perfect component would be a one-box preamp/DAC that has the following (and doesn't cost £35,000 - yes very funny Linn).

• DAC with USB, optical and coaxial digital ins
• Analogue preamp with enough gain for low output MC cartridges
• ADC
• DSP on all inputs (including analogue - Eversolo, why???)
  • Digital RIAA EQ
  • Parametric EQ - at least 10 bands per channel
  • Or better still a convolver with tens of thousands of taps
• Dynamic loudness (why does only RME do this for two channel... it's brilliant)
• Roon-ready network streamer
• Bluetooth
• AirPlay
• Balanced analogue ins and outs
• Great measurements across the board (obvs)

Several components come really close to doing all this at a reasonable price - RME, MiniDSP, Eversolo I applaud you. But each one lacks at least one vital element.

Have I missed something? If not, would someone kindly create it?

And am I alone?

You won't pay £35K which is fair enough but out of interest what do you think a reasonable retail price for such a device should/could be?

 

[Jas0_0]

You won't pay £35K which is fair enough but out of interest what do you think a reasonable retail price for such a device should/could be?

Probably max £3k

The two closest devices - the RME ADI-2/4 and the Eversolo A8 - are both around the £2k mark.

For me the RME needs a streamer, more DSP, and more preamp gain.

The Eversolo needs dynamic loudness, a preamp and an ADC.

Think an extra £1k is reasonable (generous?!) for these.

 

[Scytales]

For my part it would a universal multichannel digital files and disc player with integrated analogue preamplifier.

After touring the new and used market, I note that it is almost impossible to find a universal audio source solely dedicated to sound reproduction which would allow music lovers to play absolutely all optical disc or files types, past and presents, that have been used by music labels.

The closest thing to this type of source are the old Oppo Blue-Ray players and their quasi-clones, which shook up the home cinema market in their time thanks to their tremendous added value: capable of playing all types of discs (CD, DTS CD, DVD-V, DVD-A, DVD-R/RW, SA-CD, Blue-Ray disc and so on) and equipped with a myriad of digital inputs into which you can plug in almost anything you want: USB keys, external hard drive, etc... or stream from the Internet.

The main fault of this type of device is that for most of the advanced functions in the audio/video world (DVD discs, even DVD-Audio, and Blue-Ray) or from a computer, this kind of device is not autonomous. They must in fact be used in conjunction with a screen or computer. This is a serious flaw from an ergonomic point of view when you only want to listen to music. The ideal universal source therefore does not yet exist. In my opinion, the specifications closest to the ideal for a music lover who does not want to worry would be the following. It’s mine anyway.

A single device:

- not too bulky (miniaturization should make it possible to dispense with the usual hi-fi format at around 40 cm wide);

- multi-channel audio outputs (at least six outputs), all identical (no bandwidth limitation or compromise on the performance of certain outputs);

- optical disc drive capable of reading absolutely all formats: CD, DVD/SA-CD and Blue-Ray and their variants (R/RW, HDCD, MQA if you want, etc.);

- direct digital inputs for connecting sources or external storage devices (USB, HDMI, S/PDIF, etc.);

- network socket and wireless connection to read streams;

- totally autonomous: must be able to operate without having to connect any screen, neither use a computer, including smartphone applications (obviously, the possibility of controlling the device with a smartphone application is welcome, but the application should not be mandatory to use any function of the device);

- an integrated volume control and robust low impedance outputs (< 50 ohms) capable of driving tens of meters to act as a preamplifier;

- a remote control (even if a smartphone application exists), at least optional.

The ideal source for a music lover who wants to have access to all existing musical content in digital form, not only in mono and stereo, but also in multichannel (3, 4, 5 or 6 channels or even more), without having to work to enjoy the pleasure of listening to music (having to devote one's leisure time to ripping CDs or other discs, not my cup of tea ), nor having to bother with additional hardware (screen or computer) which has an unfortunate tendency to become obsolete more quickly than music sources for hardware reasons (types of connectivity that disappear) or software (end of support and updates, end of tlife of operating systems ), this ideal source therefore still remains to be realized.

 

[Keith_W]

BTW I just remembered that @mitchco was developing a secret product that might tick a few boxes on this list He hasn't said anything about it lately ... I wonder if it's time for an update?

 

[markstein]

Ok, first, this post comes with a heavy first world problem warning.

But...

Am I alone in feeling I have to compromise, and also sort of feeling that I shouldn't?

My system situation is almost catered for by what’s on the market but not quite (unless I spend frankly ridiculous £££).

Maybe I'm deluded, but I feel my audio needs are fairly typical for today's invested music lover (no 'a' word please). Two channels, streaming, a few records, a digital source, room correction.

And yet I still have to faff around with an inelegant cludge of boxes, routing, software, and cabling to get the usability and sound I want (which is, let's be honest and thanks in no small part to ASR, fabulous.)

So I thought I’d start this thread to find out if you out there are fully satisfied. And if not, to create a place to share what would make it so (in vain hope clever industry people will take pity and create our desired wonder boxes).

My perfect component would be a one-box preamp/DAC that has the following (and doesn't cost £35,000 - yes very funny Linn).

• DAC with USB, optical and coaxial digital ins
• Analogue preamp with enough gain for low output MC cartridges
• ADC
• DSP on all inputs (including analogue - Eversolo, why???)
  • Digital RIAA EQ
  • Parametric EQ - at least 10 bands per channel
  • Or better still a convolver with tens of thousands of taps
• Dynamic loudness (why does only RME do this for two channel... it's brilliant)
• Roon-ready network streamer
• Bluetooth
• AirPlay
• Balanced analogue ins and outs
• Great measurements across the board (obvs)

Several components come really close to doing all this at a reasonable price - RME, MiniDSP, Eversolo I applaud you. But each one lacks at least one vital element.

Have I missed something? If not, would someone kindly create it?

And am I alone?

Somehow was in a similar situation...

Owned a minidsp SHD to manage my 2.2 system. Did not like and use volumio, however, Spotify and Tidal connect worked well. However, the SHD has no means of volume control prior to its inbuilt ASRC (intersample clipping), so in the end I did not even use the streaming functionality at all. Finally sold it.

I now have the most complicated and expensive option: RME ADI-2 Pro Fs R as AD converter and headunit (loudness, PEQ). RME Fireface UFX II as DA converter (inbuilt RoomEQ). ProJect DS3 B as phono preamp. WIIM mini as streamer.

This combo let's me control every aspect of playback, however, only I can operate it. My partner just uses his Bose box ;-)

 

[Roland68]

The Eversolo needs dynamic loudness, a preamp and an ADC.

???
Why does the DMP-A8 need a preamp?
What functionality are you missing?