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Your Help in choosing Integrated Amplifier for B&W DM 602 s3

caccarot81

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Hi Guys
I've a pair of B&W 602 S3
I'm trying to understand How they sound.
Speakers have 90 db spl and go down to 3 ohms of minimum impedance and therefore need a rather robust amplifier if I want to get full potential..Let's say a good 100 W
Anyway,I wanna talk about the sound
Are these speakers too bright in the High mids?
It seems to me that the sound is too thin and too detailed.


To attenuate a high range that is a bit too much in evidence, a warm amplifier could somehow "soften" the sound.
Marantz and Denon, for example, how do they sound?
Because of His too analitical sound signature,Rotel seems to be a very bad choice for B&W speakers

What do you think Guys
Cheers
 

HarmonicTHD

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If I were you I would not solve your problem with an allegedly warm sounding amp but with some DSP / digital EQ. That can be eg. MiniDSP plus a UMIK measuring mike using either REW (free) or Dirac as software to adapt the speakers to your room plus if needed add a personal preference curve (with a slight roll off in the highs and or a slight boost in the bass). Alternatively there also exist integrated solutions such as well measuring AVR with eg. XT32, Dirac eg Dennon X3700/4700 etc.

Whatever DSP option you choose, you would at least be able to precisely distinguish what is caused by the speakers, the room and have precise control of any tone adjustments (preference curve) as opposed to some arbitrary unconfirmed personal opinion of someone who claims that amp xyz sounds warm (and probably costs a lot more than you have to spent with the here suggested approach). Just my 2cents.
 
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freemansteve

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I wouldn't try to reduce the apparent brightness of the speakers by finding a 'warmer' amp - it seems to me that keeping a little neutrality in the chain seems logical, and that a warmer amp may just bring more new problems.

What music sources are you using? (CD, Vinyl, FLAC, online, locally stored etc),

How can you be certain that it's not the combination of kit that is the issue?

Could also be your room (hard surfaces?), speaker positioning etc.

The speakers are often well-reviewed - and costly - and should not offend. They are also reasonably sensitive - if you need a 100W per channel amp to drive them, I'd be pretty sure that would be unfeasibly loud in most domestic rooms.

I would try any well-reviewed class-D amp that comes up on this site - they will drive anything, so complicated speakers may be no problem.

My needs are only "mid-fi", but I am very pleased with my Cambridge Evo 75, but you might try the Evo 150 with your speakers, as you did mention an "integrated amp"! They both run Hypex nCores.
 
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caccarot81

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I wouldn't try to reduce the apparent brightness of the speakers by finding a 'warmer' amp - it seems to me that keeping a little neutrality in the chain seems logical, and that a warmer amp may just bring more new problems.

What music sources are you using? (CD, Vinyl, FLAC, online, locally stored etc),

How can you be certain that it's not the combination of kit that is the issue?

Could also be your room (hard surfaces?), speaker positioning etc.

The speakers are often well-reviewed - and costly - and should not offend. They are also reasonably sensitive - if you need a 100W per channel amp to drive them, I'd be pretty sure that would be unfeasibly loud in most domestic rooms.

I would try any well-reviewed class-D amp that comes up on this site - they will drive anything, so complicated speakers may be no problem.

My needs are only "mid-fi", but I am very pleased with my Cambridge Evo 75, but you might try the Evo 150 with your speakers, as you did mention an "integrated amp"! They both run Hypex nCores.
The source ara FLAC (basicallly Vinyl ripping)
What about Marantz?I mean the PM 8000 series (8300/8500)
At the Moment the top Is PM8600 but Is too expensive for me.
On the contratto,Is not impossible to find 8300/8500 in the Second Hand market in the range 600/800 euros
They are capable of 100 W per Channel
What about the sound signature of Marantz?
Any sinergy with B&W 600 series?
 

HarmonicTHD

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The source ara FLAC (basicallly Vinyl ripping)
What about Marantz?I mean the PM 8000 series (8300/8500)
At the Moment the top Is PM8600 but Is too expensive for me.
On the contratto,Is not impossible to find 8300/8500 in the Second Hand market in the range 600/800 euros
They are capable of 100 W per Channel
What about the sound signature of Marantz?
Any sinergy with B&W 600 series?
Look here
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?pages/Audio_Equipment_Reviews/

(go to page 2 and set filter to AVR). Every AVR in the tier 2 category can be regarded as neutral meaning adding no audible distortion to music reproduction (see the various FAQs and Stickies in this forum on the scientific background). Select an AVR from the list which meets your budget and feature requirement or where you like the looks.

Or if you prefer a stereo amp than filter the list accordingly. ….
 

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freemansteve

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I have no idea about the Marantz, or its ability to drive low impedance loads or complex speakers.

I'd listen to some Class-D amp designs with those speakers before spending money - you may have a HiFi shop than can demo?

You are playing FLACs ripped from vinyl, but how is the FLAC digital data getting to your amp? Does the amp have a digital input (co-ax, optical USB etc), or do you have some device in front of your amp that send line-level analogue into the amp (DAC, PC etc) ?
 

TheBatsEar

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Are these speakers too bright in the High mids?
It seems to me that the sound is too thin and too detailed.
That is a matter of taste and how your room dampens, i think.
Consider using EQ to adjust for taste.

However, it is possible that the ferro fluid in the tweeter has dried out and your speakers have changed a rather large bit.
Also, i have seen woofer surrounds harden in a B&W 602 S2 (the grey surrounds). It actually was more like hard plastic and reduced bass considerable.

To attenuate a high range that is a bit too much in evidence, a warm amplifier could somehow "soften" the sound.
You'll not be able to change the character of a speaker by picking a different amp (unless of course it has tone controls :cool: ). Consider amps as devices that are nothing but wire with gain, they don't take or add (unless defective), just amplify.

I recommend getting a measurement microphone and a computer and create facts first, then decide what to do. Best investment i ever made!
 
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caccarot81

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At the moment I use a PC to reproduce FLAC
My chain is PC>DAC (via USB)>Foobar
I'n two months I'm moving home and I will repristinate my B&W speakers.
The room will be 15/20 mq
My setup will be this

Intelnuc or Macbook Pro>DAC>Amplifier>Speakers
Audirvana or something similar+Ipad for remote control
 

SMc

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Hi Guys
I've a pair of B&W 602 S3

Anyway,I wanna talk about the sound
Are these speakers too bright in the High mids?
It seems to me that the sound is too thin and too detailed.

To attenuate a high range that is a bit too much in evidence, a warm amplifier could somehow "soften" the sound.
Marantz and Denon, for example, how do they sound?
Yes, B&W have a reputation for brightness, as you can see in the DM 602 S3 measurements in Sound&Vision. Maybe the Marantz/Denon tone controls can help but measurement and eq is your best bet. Adding a sub is another long-term source of improvement.
 

HarmonicTHD

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At the moment I use a PC to reproduce FLAC
My chain is PC>DAC (via USB)>Foobar
I'n two months I'm moving home and I will repristinate my B&W speakers.
The room will be 15/20 mq
My setup will be this

Intelnuc or Macbook Pro>DAC>Amplifier>Speakers
Audirvana or something similar+Ipad for remote control
In that case keep your Macbook or PC and Dac and get the above mentioned DSP ( eg MiniDSP plus UMIK measuring mic starting at ca 300USD altogether ) and put it in between your DAC and Amp. Download REW and plug the measuring mic into the USB of your Mac/PC. Then you have a factual base from which to make adjustments to your liking (plus you get the room modes better under control).
 
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