Your Guiding Audio Principles

[watchnerd]

There's some horn lovers here that would disagree with that.

Sure, but that's why it's called 'Your Audio Principles".

The horn / OTL lovers can post their criteria here, too.

 

[Deleted member 65]

What do you think of Adam or Eve monitors?

Adam & Eve, that rings a bell. Distant relatives depending on preferred god, if any ... ;-)

Actually before I bought the Gauder Akustik speakers I intended to buy Adam Audio Tensor Gamma MKII when released.

Adam went bust, saved by venture capitalists before release of the MKII and the whole Tensor line was scrapped.

 

[watchnerd]

Adam & Eve, that rings a bell. Distant relatives depending on preferred god, if any ... ;-)

Actually before I bought the Gauder Akustik speakers I intended to buy Adam Audio Tensor Gamma MKII when released.

Adam went bust, saved by venture capitalists before release of the MKII and the whole Tensor line was scrapped.

I was speaking of the Adam Audio that currently makes speaker monitors and has done so for a few years now.

Is it the same company?

Eve Audio is a separate company, founded by ex-Adam employees.

 

[Deleted member 65]

I was speaking of the Adam Audio that currently makes speaker monitors and has done so for a few years now.

Is it the same company?

Eve Audio is a separate company, founded by ex-Adam employees.

We're speaking about the same company, Tensor was Adam Audio's premiere consumer line speakers. I know about Eve, never heard them though.

 

[Sal1950]

Just sitting here reading and for some reason these thoughts came to mind.

IMHO a power amp is very similar to a autos engine. I'm a old school dude and still abide the saying "there's no substitute for cubic inches". Monster torque and horsepower numbers are the forces that will twist driveshafts and axles in half, and are what makes your sphincter pucker when you drop the hammer.

Along the same vain big honkin power amps with huge power transformers, giant banks of capacitance, etc; provide the grunt needed to effortlessly control the drivers and make it all sound so easy and natural. High current designs doubling down as impedance half's is the road I think following will bring audio nirvana in the long term.

My love of the sound from big horns closely follows the same philosophy. Highly efficient designs allow power amps to run in their most linear, low distortion areas of operation along with doing the same for the drivers.

Properly matched amp/horn systems just have a ease and breath to their sound that I haven't found being matched from other approaches.
YMMV

 

[watchnerd]

J
Along the same vain big honkin power amps with huge power transformers, giant banks of capacitance, etc; provide the grunt needed to effortlessly control the drivers and make it all sound so easy and natural. High current designs doubling down as impedance half's is the road I think following will bring audio nirvana in the long term.

I like big honking power without big honking size and huge power transformers.

 

[Don Hills]

...
IMHO a power amp is very similar to a autos engine. I'm a old school dude and still abide the saying "there's no substitute for cubic inches". Monster torque and horsepower numbers are the forces that will twist driveshafts and axles in half, and are what makes your sphincter pucker when you drop the hammer. ...

Your sphincter tends to do the opposite when the forces exceed tensile strengths of driveshafts, axles and head studs...

 

[Sal1950]

Your sphincter tends to do the opposite when the forces exceed tensile strengths of driveshafts, axles and head studs...

LOL, How true, that has happened in the past.

 

[Cosmik]

Just sitting here reading and for some reason these thoughts came to mind.

IMHO a power amp is very similar to a autos engine. I'm a old school dude and still abide the saying "there's no substitute for cubic inches". Monster torque and horsepower numbers are the forces that will twist driveshafts and axles in half, and are what makes your sphincter pucker when you drop the hammer.

Along the same vain big honkin power amps with huge power transformers, giant banks of capacitance, etc; provide the grunt needed to effortlessly control the drivers and make it all sound so easy and natural. High current designs doubling down as impedance half's is the road I think following will bring audio nirvana in the long term.

My love of the sound from big horns closely follows the same philosophy. Highly efficient designs allow power amps to run in their most linear, low distortion areas of operation along with doing the same for the drivers.

Properly matched amp/horn systems just have a ease and breath to their sound that I haven't found being matched from other approaches.
YMMV

A different approach is active crossovers: spread the load over several amplifiers and remove the power-sapping components between amp and driver. The result is similarly effortless. Typical description of active speakers:

Right away certain specific characteristics were evident. It’s unquestionably ‘active’, with the grip, near effortless dynamic range, convincing integrity and authority that is typical of the breed

 

[fas42]

A different approach is active crossovers: spread the load over several amplifiers and remove the power-sapping components between amp and driver. The result is similarly effortless. Typical description of active speakers:

"Right away certain specific characteristics were evident. It’s unquestionably ‘active’, with the grip, near effortless dynamic range, convincing integrity and authority that is typical of the breed"

These are just markers for competent sound - active makes it easier to get there. An amplifier that's properly sorted will do it too - hearing Bryston monoblocks driving totally conventional multi driver speakers to volumes and clarity that a PA would have wet dreams about is a good, alternative example.

 

[RogerD]

These are just markers for competent sound - active makes it easier to get there. An amplifier that's properly sorted will do it too - hearing Bryston monoblocks driving totally conventional multi driver speakers to volumes and clarity that a PA would have wet dreams about is a good, alternative example.

Frank I think my mono blocks fit the bill, as instead of fuses they have 25 amp circuit breakers. I can always arc weld with them...he he.

 

[Sal1950]

A different approach is active crossovers: spread the load over several amplifiers and remove the power-sapping components between amp and driver. The result is similarly effortless. Typical description of active speakers:

Humm, well not sure how that disputes my preferences for meaty power amps? But just for discussion,

The Meridian example in the posted link lists that each speaker contains 4 100 watt amps = 400 watts per speaker
The B&O BeoLab 5 example lists a total of 2.5k watts per speaker
Our residents fav Kii Three's list 6 250 watt amps per speaker

So I'm not seeing a huge reduction of the power requirements due to, "spread the load over several amplifiers and remove the power-sapping components between amp and driver"?
Sometimes these power numbers that get thrown around for the internal Class D amps have me scratching my head and I'm just a wee bit leery of them, are they accurate? I don't know cause no one is measuring that on actives. Something just don't add up and I suspect someone is fudging things a bit. I do know that Cosmik is right and that passive speakers crossovers suck up a lot of their power amps delivered juice so ???????????????

What damn tweeter would would ever require a 100 to 250 to ??? watt amp?
The power distribution numbers of these various speakers don't add up with conventional thinking, what am I missing?

There's a bit of a fish smell to a lot of these claims.

 

[fas42]

Frank I think my mono blocks fit the bill, as instead of fuses they have 25 amp circuit breakers. I can always arc weld with them...he he.

Yep, there are good amps around - 25 years ago I did the rounds, and found nothing that impressed me in the conventional, high end brands. Only a couple of Australian efforts showed any class, and I pinched quite a few ideas from them. At the moment there are certainly more around that are capable - to be tracked down if one wants to get serious ...

 

[RogerD]

Yep, there are good amps around - 25 years ago I did the rounds, and found nothing that impressed me in the conventional, high end brands. Only a couple of Australian efforts showed any class, and I pinched quite a few ideas from them. At the moment there are certainly more around that are capable - to be tracked down if one wants to get serious ...

These were made in 1991....iirc only 6 pair made...retail was 6k a piece.

 

[fas42]

What is remarkable is that a 15W chip amp, driving a tiny, cheap full range speaker of average sensitivity, can produce very impressive sound - with modern, highly compressed pop such a playback setup can deliver deafening but clear sound, which starts the ears ringing within 5 minutes or so ... high power is not needed.

 

[fas42]

These were made in 1991
View attachment 4713

What was the brand, again?

 

[RogerD]

What was the brand, again?

Platinum Audio, Agtron Electronics,Carl Staub Reno Nevada,USA

Carl left audio and became the coffee roasting guru....too much politics and ass kissing required in audio.

http://www.agtron.net/Coffee.html

 

[Sal1950]

These were made in 1991....iirc only 6 pair made...retail was 6k a piece.

Nice amps, big balls, eh I mean caps. LOL

 

[Cosmik]

Humm, well not sure how that disputes my preferences for meaty power amps? But just for discussion,

The Meridian example in the posted link lists that each speaker contains 4 100 watt amps = 400 watts per speaker
The B&O BeoLab 5 example lists a total of 2.5k watts per speaker
Our residents fav Kii Three's list 6 250 watt amps per speaker

So I'm not seeing a huge reduction of the power requirements due to, "spread the load over several amplifiers and remove the power-sapping components between amp and driver"?
Sometimes these power numbers that get thrown around for the internal Class D amps have me scratching my head and I'm just a wee bit leery of them, are they accurate? I don't know cause no one is measuring that on actives. Something just don't add up and I suspect someone is fudging things a bit. I do know that Cosmik is right and that passive speakers crossovers suck up a lot of their power amps delivered juice so ???????????????

What damn tweeter would would ever require a 100 to 250 to ??? watt amp?
The power distribution numbers of these various speakers don't add up with conventional thinking, what am I missing?

There's a bit of a fish smell to a lot of these claims.

Wasn't disputing what you said, just offering an alternative way of reducing the load on the amps.

I posted a comment the other day as to why these latest actives may need huge amounts of power: because they are using small volumes for the drivers and have to overcome the inefficiencies with raw grunt. If you build a more conventional speaker with larger boxes (that aren't also having to accommodate the active electronics) you can drive them actively with (almost) flea power.

 

[watchnerd]

I posted a comment the other day as to why these latest actives may need huge amounts of power: because they are using small volumes for the drivers and have to overcome the inefficiencies with raw grunt. If you build a more conventional speaker with larger boxes (that aren't also having to accommodate the active electronics) you can drive them actively with (almost) flea power.

Yes...to squeeze more bass out of little boxes, and use a lot of EQ extended bass shelf alignments, you need much more power. This is not new theory, but Class D amps have made the implementation practical.