Because they are most of the time meant to be played at different levels (the recording engineer listened at a different level when mastering/mixing this) and thus need a different offset for the corrections
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You Need Loudness Correction
- Thread starter masterhw
- Start date
As I said, I mostly listen at more or less the same level. Close enough that I don't perceive any meaningful difference to the tonal balance.
There's no confusion. At least not on my part.
We have no way of knowing that, since we have no way of knowing the recording or mixing setup or the intent of the artist/producer.
I can see the potential utility of automatic loudness correction in a studio recording/mixing situation where one can control most (or at least some) of the variables. But in a home listening environment you're just adding another potential source of error.
Says who? That's a very dubious claim that movies are 'meant' to be listened to 15 dB louder than music.
For me, any recording (whether movie or music or anything else) is essentially a black box of which we can know nothing with regard to the loudness, tonal balance, spatial chracteristics etc. of the recording situation. Likewise, it's utterly pointless to try and second guess the 'intent' of the artist/producer. All we have is the recording as it stands and the reality of our listening environment which we can then tweak so the subjective experience is as pleasing as possible for the widest variety of material. By all means use automated loudness correction if you feel it adds value to your experience, but don't imagine that it's in any way more accurate or 'correct' than manually adjusting tone controls to taste ...
you only look for the conflict.. I will not react to you anymore.
This is a discussion forum is it not? I'm just trying to present a moderately cogent argument. No offense intended ...
I would like to use loudness correction, but I never found the one in EqAPO work well for me.
At my default listening volume, having enabled this I cannot hear anything because it will attenuate to -32db (!). When I raise the volume in windows the sound is now much to bassy. I have a calibrated SPL meter. It just doesn't work.
e: Thinking about this. It knows the windows volume, but it does not know the volume you play back at. If it assumes any material you play will have maximum amplitude and reach close to 0dB, it might work. But what if you use any kind of stuff like ReplayGain? At -18.24dB shown in the Loudless Correction thing, my actual playback levels are around -38dB. So the whole calibration is just bullshit.
e: Also this: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...nson-loudness-compensation.29543/post-1400113
e: So I just played back some music and increased volume until it read 75dBC on my SPL meter. I then put the volume shown in the Loudness Correction as reference volume. I so ended up going from +14dB ref using the built-in calibration to setting it to -14dB ref. It might be correct now? But the effect is too strong.
e: And once you reach the reference volume above that it does nothing? Shouldn't it also compensate when you go louder?
At my default listening volume, having enabled this I cannot hear anything because it will attenuate to -32db (!). When I raise the volume in windows the sound is now much to bassy. I have a calibrated SPL meter. It just doesn't work.
e: Thinking about this. It knows the windows volume, but it does not know the volume you play back at. If it assumes any material you play will have maximum amplitude and reach close to 0dB, it might work. But what if you use any kind of stuff like ReplayGain? At -18.24dB shown in the Loudless Correction thing, my actual playback levels are around -38dB. So the whole calibration is just bullshit.
e: Also this: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...nson-loudness-compensation.29543/post-1400113
e: So I just played back some music and increased volume until it read 75dBC on my SPL meter. I then put the volume shown in the Loudness Correction as reference volume. I so ended up going from +14dB ref using the built-in calibration to setting it to -14dB ref. It might be correct now? But the effect is too strong.
e: And once you reach the reference volume above that it does nothing? Shouldn't it also compensate when you go louder?
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wadude
Senior Member
No question loudness controls can be useful. The effect of low level listening also equates with listening from a distance. If I’m walking towards a concert the sound isn’t improving in quality, it’s simply filling out because I’m closer. Most of the time, I prefer to listen at low volumes without loudness compensation because it sounds more natural to me.
I can definitively see the value of the loudness correction vs. the calibrated volume. In my setup can't really use anything else than DEQ provided by D&M. Also, not really inclined to expand my setup for other solutions as the "simplicity" that I enjoy now gives me much comfort.
DEQ is a mixed bag and works for some, not for the others. I do not really use it but have different curves calibrated for either different volumes of listening or different content. 4 of them which is probably not enough to replace full DEQ, but useful enough.
What I find even more interesting than loudness is the relation of reference calibration to various content. Content tends to vary in bass levels so much that I don't really find most of it suiting my preferences. I do tend to adjust for it, which is a separate adjustment than loudness.
DEQ is a mixed bag and works for some, not for the others. I do not really use it but have different curves calibrated for either different volumes of listening or different content. 4 of them which is probably not enough to replace full DEQ, but useful enough.
What I find even more interesting than loudness is the relation of reference calibration to various content. Content tends to vary in bass levels so much that I don't really find most of it suiting my preferences. I do tend to adjust for it, which is a separate adjustment than loudness.
kemmler3D
Master Contributor
It's based on Fletcher Munson curves and has nothing to do with the recording, movie or otherwise. it's based on hearing. You're over thinking this.
I'm well aware what it's based on and the evidence behind Fletcher Munson curves. The point I'm trying to get across is with regard to OP's assertion that 'An implication of this is that all content is mixed for a certain volume level, and listening above or below this level will change the tonality'. I fully agree that this is a true statement, however, my point is that we cannot know what 'that certain volume' is for any given recording. Therefore I find it is pretty pointless to automate any 'correction' to said volume. The result is going to be a subjective evaluation regardless ...
It could be argued that people who automate the tonality of their listening environment based on Fletcher & Munson's theories, thinking this is some kind of 'scientific' adjustmemt, are overthinking things ... ;-)
dasdoing
Major Contributor
the EQ-APO module sounds terrible, way to bassy in the correction. probably based on old data like Fletcher-Munson:
www.audiosciencereview.com
Should you use Fletcher-Munson loudness compensation?
If you now have that function, loudness, on your amplifier, you just have to press the button and test. Not harder than that. If you like it or not depends on so many different factors so how can you be able to give advice about that to another person? It even varies based on what music you...
www.audiosciencereview.com
Not having to change the loudness setting whenever you change the volume is a simplification from my perspective (I use the RME integrated dynamic loudness)
kemmler3D
Master Contributor
I guess it could be more objectively correct if you happen to know the reference level, but that's not really the point. The point is to try and keep the tonality the same when you change the volume relative to your own "reference" level. It's easier and more effective to use F-M curves for this than trying to do it manually, that's all.
coonmanx
Addicted to Fun and Learning
I am with you on this. I also listen at basically the same volume level all of the time. I have two systems in the bedroom and each system has a graphic EQ. One is ten band and the other is a seven band. It is tuned to sound good at the volume level which I listen to. I can turn it up or down a little and that does not change. I have no use for any loudness controls. Set it and forget it.
Yes, I get that. And if you don't change the volume that much, then it's not worth the effort ...
kemmler3D
Master Contributor
Probably not, but in my case I may change the level by 10dB depending on time of day (for the consideration of neighbors and others in the house) so it could actually be useful.
I have a spouse, occasional visitors, and upstairs and downstairs neighbors. The volume changes of necessity.
MattHooper
Grand Contributor
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I seem to be in the same camp. Generally similar volume level listening. Happy with practically everything I played through the system. I had a parametric EQ in my system for decades and virtually never felt the need to touch it.
