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Yet another post about best active speakers for near field listening

DjBonoBobo

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Hello guys,

I'll order the 2 setups soon, I'd like to be sure I don't miss anything in order to A/B test (RCA/XLR) the 2 setups. Could you please confirm that I have everything i need on those screens ? I need to have the 2 setups working at same time with previous calibration and I will plug them to a Topping EX5 DAC/Amp (one in full XLR, the other in RCA > XLR)

View attachment 180959
View attachment 180960
Is everything the good choice regarding cables and stuff ? :)

Thanks !
For Neumann measurement/alignment with Focusrite you need 2 of the CFM 6 FV.

Not sure if the IsoAcoustics is a pair and if its the right size?
 

Pearljam5000

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I'm planning to plug and try both neumann and genelec setups at the same time to A/B test them, so here i need to plug and room EQ :
  • Genelec 2x 8331 + 7350
  • Neumannn 2x KH 80 + KH 750
I'll ask Thomann to be sure i'm going right, that's a good idea :)
Make sure you post a detailed comparison ;)
 

Trell

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I'm planning to plug and try both neumann and genelec setups at the same time to A/B test them, so here i need to plug and room EQ :
  • Genelec 2x 8331 + 7350
  • Neumannn 2x KH 80 + KH 750
I'll ask Thomann to be sure i'm going right, that's a good idea :)

Don’t forget to buy a small microphone stand for use when measuring.
 
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Nicochu

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For Neumann measurement/alignment with Focusrite you need 2 of the CFM 6 FV.
What is the purpose of the second cable ? The MA 1 microphone has only one XLR connector

Not sure if the IsoAcoustics is a pair and if its the right size?
It is a pair apparently, and yes I chicked for the size on iso acoustics' website :)

Make sure you post a detailed comparison
I will ! but we'll all have to wait a month or so, both subs are not available yet !

Don’t forget to buy a small microphone stand for use when measuring.
Can't i keep the microphone at the good position in my hands ? From what i've seen genelec calibration process is ultra quick, I don't know from Neumann though. If I'm wrong on this do you know a stand that might feat both genelec and neumann microphones, a cheap one if possible ?
 

Trell

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Can't i keep the microphone at the good position in my hands ? From what i've seen genelec calibration process is ultra quick, I don't know from Neumann though. If I'm wrong on this do you know a stand that might feat both genelec and neumann microphones, a cheap one if possible ?

For a proper A/B comparison between Genelec and Neuman setup with room EQ you need the microphones to be at the same exact position, and that for each measurement position if you use multiple ones. Without a microphone stand (just buy a cheap one) you cant do that. Genelec is intended to fit on a vertical stand, but I don't such one as I use it for Earthwork measurement mic and the UMIK-1 before that.

A mic stand will also be very helpful in determining a good position for the subwoofers. A quick way is to use GLM for calibration, one for each subwoofer placement and look at the correction graph that GLM produces. A single measurement position was good enough for me, at least, for determining a good enough subwoofer placement. You should find two subwoofer positions, one for each Genelec and Neuman subwoofer, that measures similarly. Otherwise differences in bass response will affect your A/B as they can vary greatly in a room, even at small distances.

Buy some painters tape to mark positions of speakers, subwoofers and measurement positions. The tape can even be written on and wont leave a mark when removed.

Also buy a cheap laser distance meter as this will make it easier to measure height distance, or other distances as well if further away to a wall. It will be much easier to repeat your measurement positions later on.

In my small home office with limited subwoofer placement, the least bad was this. It ain't perfect, but better than the other positions i tried.

1642949806143.png
 
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DjBonoBobo

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What is the purpose of the second cable ? The MA 1 microphone has only one XLR connector
The Focusrite has no XLR outputs.

Therefore, for the alignment:
MA1 mic -> 1x XLR to XLR cable -> Focusrite -> 2x TRS to XLR cables (left and right channel) -> KH750 -> 2x XLR to XLR cables -> KH80

For listening you exchange the TRS to XLR cables with the stereo RCA to XLR cable to connect the Topping with the KH750, and i guess you will want to use the XLR cable from the MA1 for the Genelec-setup.

Can't i keep the microphone at the good position in my hands ? From what i've seen genelec calibration process is ultra quick, I don't know from Neumann though. If I'm wrong on this do you know a stand that might feat both genelec and neumann microphones, a cheap one if possible ?

I don´t know about GLM, but for Neumann you will need a stand. The MA1 comes with a holder that also works with both 3/8 and 5/8 inch threads and additionally 1/2 inch threads (there is an thread-adapter built in that can be flipped or removed). Therefore you can use any mic stand, for example this: https://www.thomann.de/de/km_25400.htm
Don´t know about GLM - it seems to come with a holder for 3/8 and 5/8, but i don´t know how to adjust the angle if connected to such a stand?

Also, i really recommend reading the Neumann manuals and instructions. They are pretty detailed.
MA1: https://de-de.neumann.com/product_files/9477/download
KH750: https://de-de.neumann.com/product_files/9393/download
KH80: https://de-de.neumann.com/product_files/9481/download
 

Trell

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Don´t know about GLM - it seems to come with a holder for 3/8 and 5/8, but i don´t know how the adjust the angle if connected to such a stand?

The adapter is very simple and you can’t adjust any angle with it.
 

DjBonoBobo

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For a proper A/B comparison between Genelec and Neuman setup ...
Realistically, I don't think you can do a "proper" A/B comparison at home at all. The speakers and subwoofer of A and B can't be in the same place. Therefore, you will always have the problem that you do not compare under the same conditions. You can never be completely sure that a difference is really due to the speakers. Of course, you can try to make two A/B comparisons with swapped positions, but it will always be difficult.
So it will probably always come down to trying to get an impression for yourself that will help you make a decision. But it will never be transferable to others or generalizable, but that's what spinoramas are for.
 

Trell

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Realistically, I don't think you can do a "proper" A/B comparison at home at all. The speakers and subwoofer of A and B can't be in the same place. Therefore, you will always have the problem that you do not compare under the same conditions. You can never be completely sure that a difference is really due to the speakers. Of course, you can try to make two A/B comparisons with swapped positions, but it will always be difficult.
So it will probably always come down to trying to get an impression for yourself that will help you make a decision. But it will never be transferable to others or generalizable, but that's what spinoramas are for.

Come on, with some care in the setup he can get a pretty good impression of the monitors/subwoofer when doing A/B in the intended place. All he wants to know is which pair of monitors with subwoofer sounds the best in his place after calibration, and thus which pair to keep.
 
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Nicochu

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Thanks for your answers guys :)

I will take a mic stand, but i'm not sure which one to take yet because i'd like to have a listening position on a bed, and the stand you linked has a too high minimum height (i'd like something i can position from 30cm to 150cm or something like this), i'll check on Thomann and I got the idea anyway.

MA1 mic -> 1x XLR to XLR cable -> Focusrite -> 2x TRS to XLR cables (left and right channel) -> KH750 -> 2x XLR to XLR cables -> KH80
Got it, thanks !

You should find two subwoofer positions, one for each Genelec and Neuman subwoofer
I'll try to put them side by side but i guess this won't be good, i'll put the desk on ce center of a wall so i will probably put one on front left side and one on front right side from the listening position

Also buy a cheap laser distance meter as this will make it easier to measure height distance, or other distances as well if further away to a wall. It will be much easier to repeat your measurement positions later on.
That's a good idea indeed :)


I think I will try to make some double blind tests with friends etc if i have time to do so, but if the sub are not at the same place I will probably locate which one is making the sound :-/
I'll probably make my order on Thomann soon, then i'll have to wait a loooooonnnnng month before starting the tests.
 

Zaireeka

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I bought this model, pretty decent quality for measurement. Just don't forget to also buy a mic clip.

 

DjBonoBobo

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Come on, with some care in the setup he can get a pretty good impression of the monitors/subwoofer when doing A/B in the intended place. All he wants to know is which pair of monitors with subwoofer sounds the best in his place after calibration, and thus which pair to keep.
I agree, it is certainly good enough for that. Maybe it got lost in translation what i wanted to say, but it´s not important.

i'd like to have a listening position on a bed
You might need something like this for the GLM mic then, but i don´t know if this one would fit:https://www.thomann.de/de/gravity_ms_u_clmp.htm (@Zaireeka beat me to it :))

I'll try to put them side by side but i guess this won't be good, i'll put the desk on ce center of a wall so i will probably put one on front left side and one on front right side from the listening position
Symmetry to the display might be important. You probably need to try out different positions to get a picture.

Good luck!
 

dominikz

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Hello guys,

I'll order the 2 setups soon, I'd like to be sure I don't miss anything in order to A/B test (RCA/XLR) the 2 setups. Could you please confirm that I have everything i need on those screens ? I need to have the 2 setups working at same time with previous calibration and I will plug them to a Topping EX5 DAC/Amp (one in full XLR, the other in RCA > XLR)

View attachment 180959
View attachment 180960
Is everything the good choice regarding cables and stuff ? :)

Thanks !
Just a note that if you plan to A/B compare the two sets you might also want a switcher / monitor controler box. Or alternatively an audio interface that comes with two pairs of stereo outputs.
 
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Nicochu

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Just a note that if you plan to A/B compare the two sets you might also want a switcher / monitor controler box. Or alternatively an audio interface that comes with two pairs of stereo outputs.
I'm planning on plug the 2 setups to a Topping EX5 DAC, one in XLR and the other in RCA. This way I can switch XLR or RCA output on the DAC. I verified and the topping EX5 can switch modes in XLR only or RCA only
Am I missing something here ?
 

dominikz

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I'm planning on plug the 2 setups to a Topping EX5 DAC, one in XLR and the other in RCA. This way I can switch XLR or RCA output on the DAC. I verified and the topping EX5 can switch modes in XLR only or RCA only
Am I missing something here ?
Sorry for the confusion, I just missed you will use EX5 to drive everything and thought you plan to use the Focusrite Scarlett Solo instead.
What you describe should work OK!
 

kongwee

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How wide are you gonna place your future speaker with all your three monitor. If you believe in equatorial triangle setup, Properly you need to reposition all your monitors.
 

kschmit2

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How wide are you gonna place your future speaker with all your three monitor. If you believe in equatorial triangle setup, Properly you need to reposition all your monitors.
Exactly my thought. It will not work as currently intended and the whole planned system will remain well below its optimum performance.

Mounting the speakers above the screen as an alternative would also sound quite unnatural.
 

kongwee

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Exactly my thought. It will not work as currently intended and the whole planned system will remain well below its optimum performance.

Mounting the speakers above the screen as an alternative would also sound quite unnatural.
Stack one of the monitor? Depend how your workflow.
 
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Nicochu

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First I will change how my room is in order to put des desk on the center of a side like this :

plan bureau_2.png


What i'm planning with speakers in A/B test is like this :

Left screen | genelec speaker | neumann speaker | center screen | genelec speaker | neumann speaker | right screen

Desk.png

I'll do this thanks to this topic (i didn't read everything yet BTW), this is not perfect to A/B test and I can't really have a unique position with both setups in an equilateral triangle, but i guess this is better than the other ways.
Other option is to put the neumann under the genelec, with the isoaccoustic pod directed to the top, but i guess the neumann will hide the bottom of the genelecs

If someone has a better idea please tell me :)
 
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