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Yes, anyone, even old people can hear 21 kHz (test attached)

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Andro

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Download the sample file from here and listen. Unless your equipment is not capable of reproducing beyond 20 kHz or you are 99 years old you will easily hear alternative patterns of different tone. One is a 7 kHz sin wave and another is "artificially constructed" square wave composed of 7 kHz base and 21 kHz 3rd harmonic. The video explaining this effect is:
. Comments in video will tell you that other people hear it as well. I can, everyone reading this should.

Short explanation. No, almost nobody can hear a sin wave beyond 18 kHz, however anyone can tell a sin wave from a square wave at 7 kHz, even though the square wave is made of the 3rd 21 kHz harmonic. It happens because our ears and our brain are not doing the Fourier transform, even the fast one. We hear the shape of a wave in its entirety, not as a spectrum of harmonics. It doesn't matter that the audio equipment requires 21 kHz to store the 7 kHz square wave - our brain is unrelated to the electrical circuits, it works differently.

If you follow this forum: https://www.diyaudio.com/community/...re-wave-sound-the-same-as-a-sine-wave.287452/ that young people can hear harmonics up to 45 kHz and 60 years old people can hear 30 kHz.

Is there any music material that high? Yes. Skipping exotic instruments that go to 100 kHz, just an ordinary violin music goes to 40 kHz. And again, our brain will not decompose the sound of a piano key/ violin into 30 harmonics as the sound chain will, they process the strange shape of those instruments sound in their entirety. So with the Nyquist filter set at 40 kHz, a 16 bit / 80 kHz transmission media is necessary to play a violin and a grand piano. 24 bit / 96 kHz is realistically speaking not necessary, but if it exists as a standard nothing wrong with having it.

And btw the simple proof that 16 bits are not enough is that dithered music sounds better than un-dithered. Dithering is destroying the music information. If we did not hear the step between two adjacent digits in 16 bits the dithering would not be necessary, as it's not necessary for 24 bit music. Enjoy.
 
1) What Nyquist (or Shannon, or Kotelnikov) has to do with that?
2) Square waves do not consist of one tone and its harmonics, they are broadband (theoretically even of infinite spectrum), so they are not suitable for FR measurements at all.
 
Suit up . . .

eodsuit.jpg


You're going to need it.
 
Nothing in my post or in the video I posted claims that square waves do not require an infinite band. You probably posted to the wrong thread.
 
Download the sample file from here and listen. Unless your equipment is not capable of reproducing beyond 20 kHz or you are 99 years old you will easily hear alternative patterns of different tone. One is a 7 kHz sin wave and another is "artificially constructed" square wave composed of 7 kHz base and 21 kHz 3rd harmonic. The video explaining this effect is:
. Comments in video will tell you that other people hear it as well. I can, everyone reading this should.

Short explanation. No, almost nobody can hear a sin wave beyond 18 kHz, however anyone can tell a sin wave from a square wave at 7 kHz, even though the square wave is made of the 3rd 21 kHz harmonic. It happens because our ears and our brain are not doing the Fourier transform, even the fast one. We hear the shape of a wave in its entirety, not as a spectrum of harmonics. It doesn't matter that the audio equipment requires 21 kHz to store the 7 kHz square wave - our brain is unrelated to the electrical circuits, it works differently.

If you follow this forum: https://www.diyaudio.com/community/...re-wave-sound-the-same-as-a-sine-wave.287452/ that young people can hear harmonics up to 45 kHz and 60 years old people can hear 30 kHz.

Is there any music material that high? Yes. Skipping exotic instruments that go to 100 kHz, just an ordinary violin music goes to 40 kHz. And again, our brain will not decompose the sound of a piano key/ violin into 30 harmonics as the sound chain will, they process the strange shape of those instruments sound in their entirety. So with the Nyquist filter set at 40 kHz, a 16 bit / 80 kHz transmission media is necessary to play a violin and a grand piano. 24 bit / 96 kHz is realistically speaking not necessary, but if it exists as a standard nothing wrong with having it.

And btw the simple proof that 16 bits are not enough is that dithered music sounds better than un-dithered. Dithering is destroying the music information. If we did not hear the step between two adjacent digits in 16 bits the dithering would not be necessary, as it's not necessary for 24 bit music. Enjoy.
The signal is not pure, you hear the fade in fade out artifacts and the discontinuities, a flawed signal!
(I download the sample file and analyzed it)
 
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You guys above didn't get the message. You need to go watch the video again.
 
You remind me of that guy Sunjam wreaking havoc here lol. I'm starting to think you're him in disguise using your backup account

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Nothing in any of my posts or the video I posted above ever claimed that the Nyquist theorem is incorrect. Which is completely unrelated to the topic. Nothing posted here requires the Nyquist theorem to be incorrect in order to be correct.
 
For those who didn't watch the video, there is no magic.
The message is this: It is all artifacts. You can't hear above 20 kHz.

However, we also get this significant information:
Even though youtube does deliver 44.1 kilohertz to you
it puts a hard limiter at 16 kilohertz.

So any frequencies above 16 kilohertz get dialed to zero, nothing.

There's nothing above 16 kilohertz on youtube.

Here, go watch for a few seconds:
What is the Optimal Sampling Rate for Audio? (It's All About the Aliasing)
(The link starts at 15:48)

That is worth some comments.
 
No, you cannot hear above 18 kHz, I cannot hear above even less than that. But we can still hear the shape of the waves at 7 kHz or even higher. And in order to reproduce anything other than a sine waveform at 7 kHz, the audio equipment requires 21 kHz. So we can hear if the audio equipment is cutting out above 20 kHz. So for the old people 48 kHz is absolutely necessary, for the young people a lot more than that.
 
Can people really hear harmonics or at least distinquish audio difference of say a violin or piano that are above 20k hz? Besides being of too high frequency, wouldn't their amplitude be too low?
 
Download the sample file from here and listen. Unless your equipment is not capable of reproducing beyond 20 kHz or you are 99 years old you will easily hear alternative patterns of different tone. One is a 7 kHz sin wave and another is "artificially constructed" square wave composed of 7 kHz base and 21 kHz 3rd harmonic. The video explaining this effect is: <<snip>>. Comments in video will tell you that other people hear it as well. I can, everyone reading this should.
Short explanation. No, almost nobody can hear a sin wave beyond 18 kHz, however anyone can tell a sin wave from a square wave at 7 kHz, even though the square wave is made of the 3rd 21 kHz harmonic. It happens because our ears and our brain are not doing the Fourier transform, even the fast one. We hear the shape of a wave in its entirety, not as a spectrum of harmonics. It doesn't matter that the audio equipment requires 21 kHz to store the 7 kHz square wave - our brain is unrelated to the electrical circuits, it works differently.
If you follow this forum: https://www.diyaudio.com/community/...re-wave-sound-the-same-as-a-sine-wave.287452/ that young people can hear harmonics up to 45 kHz and 60 years old people can hear 30 kHz.
Is there any music material that high? Yes. Skipping exotic instruments that go to 100 kHz, just an ordinary violin music goes to 40 kHz. And again, our brain will not decompose the sound of a piano key/ violin into 30 harmonics as the sound chain will, they process the strange shape of those instruments sound in their entirety. So with the Nyquist filter set at 40 kHz, a 16 bit / 80 kHz transmission media is necessary to play a violin and a grand piano. 24 bit / 96 kHz is realistically speaking not necessary, but if it exists as a standard nothing wrong with having it.
And btw the simple proof that 16 bits are not enough is that dithered music sounds better than un-dithered. Dithering is destroying the music information. If we did not hear the step between two adjacent digits in 16 bits the dithering would not be necessary, as it's not necessary for 24 bit music. Enjoy.
There is nothing in that video that supports the claims you made that I have emboldened, above.

The video host is only talking about the sample rate used in the ADCs when recording music. Recording music at much below 60 kHz has the potential to audibly misrepresent ultrasonic content created by the musical instruments, reflecting back down into the audible band as aliasing artefacts.

Once we have captured the music (say at 24/96 as per the industry norms), then these aliasing artefacts are prevented from reflecting into the audible band, then we can resample that recording into any rate 44 kHz and above (for distribution, transmission and playback) and it will sound exactly as it should.

Nobody is hearing any harmonics above 20 kHz. You misunderstand what is going on.

cheers
 
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Yeah the dying CD industry overlords will summon all their marketing firetruck teams to defend their silly 16/44 myths carefully planted over decades :)
Maybe shorten this a bit and I am certain many members here will consider buying a stitched doormat

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No, you cannot hear above 18 kHz, I cannot hear above even less than that. But we can still hear the shape of the waves at 7 kHz or even higher. And in order to reproduce anything other than a sine waveform at 7 kHz, the audio equipment requires 21 kHz. So we can hear if the audio equipment is cutting out above 20 kHz. So for the old people 48 kHz is absolutely necessary, for the young people a lot more than that.
you can not hear the shape difference of square wave and a sine wave.
The example given just gives audible artifacts because the experiment has not been done correctly.
1: the rms level of the two waves must be carefully matched ( there is a 2.01dB difference)
2: eliminate discontinuities as you will hear them as a 'difference'
 
I wouldn't call the second signal a square,sounds more like a weird sawtooth to me.
 
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