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Yamaha's "Physics of Bi-amping"

DonH56

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F1308

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So Yamaha, I said Yamaha, the maker of Montage M8x, is worried about the different
signals going through a wire and recommends
a separation based at least on two different paths for high and low ?

What then about the many different frequencies
being placed afterwards by each path on a paper cone ?

Am I to have a woofer for each frequency ?
 

ddoppler

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And the manufacturers wired according to the market they sold into:

View attachment 323973
Thanks-the pin layout on this drawing/schematic…US/Canadian looks familiar. In my previous post, I was talking about the Rotel amplifier-I think I did see that, I’m gonna check again-I just overlooked.

Okay, sorry for the newbie question-what is the Cold pin mean? PIN 2 on US/Canadian…another ground?
 

restorer-john

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Okay, sorry for the newbie question-what is the Cold pin mean? PIN 2 on US/Canadian…another ground?

Hot = + or positive.
Cold = - or inverting.
Ground = Ground (chassis)

The old US/Canada wiring merely switched the +/- around. The ground didn't change.
 

ddoppler

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Hot = + or positive.
Cold = - or inverting.
Ground = Ground (chassis)

The old US/Canada wiring merely switched the +/- around. The ground didn't change.
Okay-I just missed it on this Rotel amplifier…Pin 1=Ground Pin 2=In Phase/Hot Pin 3=Out of Phase/Cold

It’s also a match on the back of my AVR…nice!
 

Speedskater

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Hot = + or positive.
Cold = - or inverting.
Ground = Ground (chassis)
The old US/Canada wiring merely switched the +/- around. The ground didn't change.
Make that:
Hot = '+' or positive.
Cold = '-' or inverting.
Shield = chassis

There is no ground in a balanced interconnect system.
However in some microphone systems, Shield is also phantom power supply common.
* * * * * * * * * * *
Yep, it's confusing, because a balanced interconnect system is symmetrical about 'ground', but there is no 'ground' in the circuit.
A great example of no 'ground' is a transformer coupled interconnect.
 
Last edited:

ddoppler

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Make that:
Hot = '+' or positive.
Cold = '-' or inverting.
Shield = chassis

There is no ground in a balanced interconnect system.
However in some microphone systems, Shield is also phantom power supply common.
* * * * * * * * * * *
Yep, it's confusing, because a balanced interconnect system is symmetrical about 'ground', but there is no 'ground' in the circuit.
A great example of no 'ground' is a transformer coupled interconnect.
Thanks for this info. Yup, it’s confusing, but-starting to come together a bit more…
 

sergeauckland

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Make that:
Hot = '+' or positive.
Cold = '-' or inverting.
Shield = chassis

There is no ground in a balanced interconnect system.
However in some microphone systems, Shield is also phantom power supply common.
* * * * * * * * * * *
Yep, it's confusing, because a balanced interconnect system is symmetrical about 'ground', but there is no 'ground' in the circuit.
A great example of no 'ground' is a transformer coupled interconnect.
It's even more confusing, as a transformer-coupled input can be fully floating, with no connection to ground, or centre-tapped with the centre of the transformer going to ground. Furthermore, the centre tap is necessary for phantom power for an active capacitor microphone.

S
 

ddoppler

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It's even more confusing, as a transformer-coupled input can be fully floating, with no connection to ground, or centre-tapped with the centre of the transformer going to ground. Furthermore, the centre tap is necessary for phantom power for an active capacitor microphone.

S
Hmm…think I’ll go back to reading;

The Audio Expert: Everything You Need to Know About Audio, Ethan Winer.

I do feel like I’ve been getting some concrete answers on a few things…this coupled with some newbie reading helps clear the fog a bit .
 

ddoppler

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The Cannon XLR is a connector type. Whether or not the circuit is balanced depends upon other things than the connector. I have seen many examples of XLR connectors used essentially for the "pro look" that do not have differential, or even balanced, circuitry behind them. An XLR connector provides the ability to provide balanced or differential signals in a single connector. An RCA solution requires two connectors for a balanced/differential circuit (one for the in-phase "+" and another for the complementary "-" signal).

The signal level is similarly dictated by the circuitry inside and not the connector itself. The most common IME is +6 dB for the differential signal since two similar drivers each provide the same level but opposite polarity, doubling the effective voltage level. However, I've seen specs all over the map, especially for consumer units. Some designs use a balanced circuit that simply terminates one side for no gain, and some may use transformers or dividers that can reduce the gain (perhaps to provide lower distortion and higher headroom for the internal signal chain).

From Wikipedia:

History and manufacturers[edit]​

Male and female XLR connectors with different numbers of pins
The XLR connector (also Cannon plug and Cannon connector) was invented by James H. Cannon, founder of the Cannon Electric company, Los Angeles, California. The XLR connector originated from the Cannon X series of connectors; by 1950, a latching mechanism was added to the connector, which produced the Cannon XL model of connector, and by 1955, the female connector featured synthetic-rubber insulation polychloroprene (neoprene), identified with the part-number prefix XLR. There was also the XLP series of connectors with hard plastic insulation, but the XLR model name is commonly used for all of the variants.[2][3][4]

Originally, the ITT Cannon company manufactured XLR connectors in two locations: Kanagawa, Japan, and Melbourne, Australia. The Australian factory was sold to Alcatel Components in 1992 and then acquired by Amphenol in 1998. Later, the Switchcraft corporation manufactured compatible connectors, followed by the Neutrik company, which made improvements to the connector, and produced a second-generation design (the X-series) that had only four parts for the cable connector, and eliminated the small screws used in the models of XLR connectors made by Cannon and Switchcraft.
Man, if anyone hasn’t read this yet…about James H Cannon-Cannon Electric and just the Cannon family in general, it’s a very interesting read. The Cannons were a bad ass bunch…especially Martha Hughes Cannon-LOL.
 

Andysu

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Man, if anyone hasn’t read this yet…about James H Cannon-Cannon Electric and just the Cannon family in general, it’s a very interesting read. The Cannons were a bad ass bunch…especially Martha Hughes Cannon-LOL.
67492.gif


not as bad as my Sooty

Sooty makes b wiring seem like cat food
10359084_10152500113110149_6673800463507018251_o.jpg
 
D

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It's funny, this bi-amping bi-wiring thing. I mean where does it end up-stream? Should you have separation of everything up until the DA conversion?
 

HarmonicTHD

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It's funny, this bi-amping bi-wiring thing. I mean where does it end up-stream? Should you have separation of everything up until the DA conversion?
Two different power plants maybe. ;)
 
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