Yamaha YH-5000SE Flagship Headphone Review

[muza_1]

They wanted in, if unknown brands could why not them, just by reading a few posts on various headphone dedicated forums they knew there is a market for it and they also knew that after a little while people are going to praise it and defend it even with those measurements (it just take one to get the ball rolling). It happens every day in the IEM market.

There are less than $20 IEMs (even some around $5 on sale) that measure way better in every aspect.

 

[soundwave76]

I tested these once in a hifi expo. The build quality was superb and the lightness a huge plus. The environment was so noisy I couldnt listen to them properly.

 

[frix]

thats really puzzeling. Obviously much effort went into the physical design. How on earth can they mess up the actual sound reproduction so much. Who signed this off? Unbelievable

 

[voodooless]

Yamaha engineering department: "Hey, we made these nice retro-looking things. Just one issue: their performance is absolutely terrible. We can't sell them like this!"

Yamaha marketing department: "What are you talking about? It's simple: we'll just label them as flagship and give them an exorbitantly high price. It will sell like hot cakes and no one would dare question their performance"

@amirm: "hold my beer..."

 

[AdrianusG]

Yamaha engineering department: "Hey, we made these nice retro-looking things. Just one issue: their performance is absolutely terrible. We can't sell them like this!"

Yamaha marketing department: "What are you talking about? It's simple: we'll just label them as flagship and give them an exorbitantly high price. It will sell like hot cakes and no one would dare question their performance"

@amirm: "hold my beer..."

For 500 (and with good measurements) i might have bought it, because i like the design, but this price

 

[Buckchester]

The response of this headphone is so deviated that subjective experience is going to be more correct than not.

Apparently not for this reviewer: http://www.soundstagesolo.com/index.php/equipment/headphones/387-yamaha-yh-5000se-headphones#comment

 

[BrooklynNick]

There is not set of headphones in the world worth $5000. Have never heard any headphone come close to approximating the fidelity and soundstage of a nice speaker system in an acoustically friendly room.

Someone always says something like this. People who use headphones have different use cases than people using speakers. You usually can't use speakers in the office, on the go, late at night, noisy home, etc. Many don't have an "acoustically friendly room." The DCA Stealth is one of the best measuring headphones available and costs $4000. While price never determines sound quality, there are some very good, very expensive headphones. There are also some like this Yamaha that are way overpriced. That is why we need ASR measurements.

 

[VientoB]

Hmm, the price of this one is disappointing considering its measurement deficiencies.

 

[PBSequence]

It takes a certain something to make $5000 headphones that sound worse than those the same company produced 4 decades earlier. I’ve got an amateurishly restored HP-2 and those sound miles better (and yes, I’ve actually tried the YH-5000).

 

[Jimmyblues1959]

This is a review, listening tests, EQ and detailed measurements of the Yamaha flagship YH-5000SE open back headphone. It was kindly drop shipped by a member and costs US $5,000.
View attachment 385162
Unlike many high-end headphone, the YH-5000SE is quite light. It is sturdy though as parts are made out of metal. I really like the adjustable suspension band as once to your liking, it almost feels like you are not wearing a headphone! Very nicely done on this front.

The drivers are mounted quite deep in the cup with a very transparent fabric protecting them. It doesn't show well in this picture but here it is anyway:

View attachment 385163

Two sets of pads are provided. I opted to measure with the default leather ones you see here. There is another set that is made out of velour. It is similar thickness and compresses very easily.

If you are not familiar with my headphone reviews, please watch this video on how I measure headphones:

Fitment on the fixture was very easy although in higher frequencies, slightest adjustment would change the dips in response.

Yamaha YH-5000SE Headphone Measurements
Let's start with our usual headphone frequency response measurement using industry standard GRAS 45CA fixture:
View attachment 385165
I could not believe this response at first thinking something is wrong in my setup. But another reviewer measured almost exactly the same. I don't know what would justify that peak between 1 and 1.5 kHz. What follows it depressed jagged response from 2 to 5 kHz is another major oddity. We may have some clues here when we look at the distortion measurements but let's look at relative frequency response:
View attachment 385166

EQ development by hand/eye will be difficult but wait on that verdict. Here are the relative distortion measurements:
View attachment 385167
We didn't need more bad news but Yamaha delivers it to us nevertheless. As soon as the 114 dBSPL sweep started, I could hear severe distortion through the rear of the cups so didn't even need to look at the graph to see that problem. But even at 94 dBSPL we have narrow peaks between 2 and 3 kHz indicating resonances. Given the need for equalization, YH-5000SE doesn't leave us in a comfortable position. We could write off the headphone at this point and be fully justified but do stay tuned until end of the review.

Here is absolute distortion response:
View attachment 385170

Group delay is very messy indicating multiple sources mixing which points to more points of resonance:
View attachment 385171
Notice how the pattern from 2 to 3 kHz matches the distortion spikes.

Even our impedance measurement shows signs of this:
View attachment 385172

Sensitivity is about average:
View attachment 385173

Yamaha YH-5000SE Listening Tests and Equalization
It is warmer in my lab so my music listening is done with Tanchin One IEM. As soon as I swapped that for the Yamaha, the sound folded in and lost any spatial cues, as low as they tend to be with IEMs! I was not hopeful I could properly EQ the headphone but my quick attempts with some fine tuning produced excellent results:
View attachment 385174
First the negative: this headphone can't produce sub-bass with or without that bass filter. It simply gets distorted. Distortion there is a real problem. Fortunately most music doesn't have such spectrum and on rest of my music library, listening at modestly loud levels, I could not detect that distortion.

With the filters in place, the vocals came forward now as they should have been. Spatial qualities massively improved with sound now extending quite wide on each side of my ears (in relative terms). Now, combine this with a very lightweight and comfortable headphone that the YH-5000SE, and you could understand why I just laid back past midnight, and just listened to track after track and enjoying every bit of it!

Conclusions
Objectively, the YH-5000SE is very flawed both in tonality and in transparency (distortion). I don't buy it for a moment that much of this is intentional/voicing. You would need very elaborate equalization circuits to create that chewed up frequency response. And that leaves you nowhere in explaining the distortion even though at least one reviewer tried, calling it tube like. No, not remotely so. These are design mistakes that should have been caught and remedied. Build a proper headphone first and then change the tonality if you like, and document it.

Subjectively, the headphone sounds as bad as it measures. It destroyed my reference tracks of all genres. Female vocals collapse to the back of my head. Orchestral music sounded dull lacking resolution and spaciousness. I would say the overall fidelity was if you mixed AM and FM radio together for those of you who remember those things! No way any Yamaha Piano sounds like this in person. Listening to recording of such through this headphone would destroy the art, not recreate it.

Shockingly, four filters transformed the sound to a magical place I didn't think was possible given what we had to work with. Then, back up forces in the form of comfort came in, producing a very enjoyable and satisfying experience. It hugely softened the blow of the objective measurements in the eyes of this reviewer. This shows the power of building correction filters based on objective measurements, salvaging what at first would not have seemed worth the effort.

If you are listening to this headphone and think this is what music is supposed to sound like, I highly recommend you get the aforementioned Tanchin One IEM to appreciate what high fidelity music reproduction is all about. At $27, it is pocket change. Indeed, I am listening to that IEM and marveling every second at its fidelity but we digress.

I can't recommend the Yamaha YH-5000SE although I do wonder if would be happy using it everyday with EQ and appreciate its comfort.
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As always, questions, comments, recommendations, etc. are welcome.

Any donations are much appreciated using: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/how-to-support-audio-science-review.8150/

In the current difficult economic times I can't help but think that for many people $5000 would cover their annual food bill. Of course if a headphone at this price is truly outstanding I am sure that there are some well to do enthusiasts who would enjoy such a purchase. As for myself, I'll be looking into the Tanchin One iem.

 

[BrooklynNick]

In the current difficult economic times I can't help but think that for many people $5000 would cover their annual food bill. Of course if a headphone at this price is truly outstanding I am sure that there are some well to do enthusiasts who would enjoy such a purchase. As for myself, I'll be looking into the Tanchin One iem.

That is certainly one way to think about it and acknowledge that much of the world still lives in poverty. On the other hand, I strongly doubt that 5K would end up in a charity, if it did not go for a pair of headphones. More like, it would be spent on some other luxury goods or invested. I'm also not sure it is fair to single out headphone in a world with $2000 baseball caps and $4000 bed sheets.

 

[Jimmyblues1959]

That is certainly one way to think about it and acknowledge that much of the world still lives in poverty. On the other hand, I strongly doubt that 5K would end up in a charity, if it did not go for a pair of headphones. More like, it would be spent on some other luxury goods or invested. I'm also not sure it is fair to single out headphone in a world with $2000 baseball caps and $4000 bed sheets.

I'm not singling out headphones. If that was the impression I gave I apologize. I was merely stating that while there are those who have substantially more money to spend on luxury items than others, there are many very expensive items that don't offer performance commensurate with their retail price; as is the case with the Yamaha 5000se. From a practical standpoint, I also mentioned what $5000 could purchase in regard to food, which is a basic necessity of life. In a world where there's as much poverty and suffering as there is, it is difficult to ignore such a disparity.

 

[solderdude]

People that buy these headphones without listening either have the option to return them and have enough disposable income so it won't even put a little dent in their wallets.
There is a limited market for this one.

 

[BrooklynNick]

> From a practical standpoint, I also mentioned what $5000 could purchase in regard to food, which is a basic necessity of life. In a world where there's as much poverty and suffering as there is, it is difficult to ignore such a disparity.

I want to take a moment to explain my thinking on this in a less heated tone. I deleted my earlier reply. First, I agree that there is too much poverty and suffering. I do my little bit by donating and paying taxes.

I think that shaming or discouraging people from buying luxury goods is not an argument that actual has any benefit to poor people. The 5K someone spends on headphones in the USA usually represents post-tax money (either income tax or capitol gains tax). In most US states there is then a sales tax. In my state, it is 8.5%. A productive argument for the poor and against inequity might revolve on how those tax dollars are spent by the government.

To reduce inequity in the US, one might argue for higher corporate taxes, higher taxes on the rich, and higher capitol gains taxes. One might also make arguments about how those taxes are allocated. Like climate change, blaming inequity on personal consumption serves to gaslight the deeper causes.

Asking people to spend less on headphones, speakers, cars, watches, bed sheets, designer clothes, etc is more a question of personal values/ethics and does not have any social benefit unless the money that is not spent is instead donated. Lots of people on this website have expensive audio gear. I think Amir's stereo setup is worth at least 40K. Given that, I hope you understand that a "but the poor" argument, even if well meant and heartfelt, is kind of insulting.

 

[BrooklynNick]

People that buy these headphones without listening either have the option to return them and have enough disposable income so it won't even put a little dent in their wallets.
There is a limited market for this one.

I think that is mostly true. However, I spend a lot of time over on Head-Fi and it is pretty clear that there are a lot of folks there spending way more than they can reasonably afford on headphones and other audiophile gear.

Little story... A few years back, I invited a guy over to my house for a listening session. He wanted to compare my electrostatic amplifier to one he was considering buying. He brought over the amp, STAX 009 headphones, audiophile cables (because I don't play that game), a DAC, etc. In all, it was easily 20K of gear. Very nice person too. He arrived at my house in a beat up old van. I learned that he works as a postman and has three young children. (Edit: I think I'm being a bit too judgmental here. I don't know enough about his life to say if his priorities were wrong or what exactly his financial situation was. But the point being that people with middle class jobs buy this stuff.)

This is why I truly believe in ASR's mission. They are a lot of folks who deeply love music and get wrapped up in buying all the expensive gear that they are told is needed or they are missing out. FOMO is powerful, especially with a lot of us obsessives, and most sites encourage it. Head-Fi has a saying: "Welcome to Head-Fi and sorry about your wallet." I find that very sad.

 

[Nango]

Ring, ring!!! ...Yes?? Well, this the lawyers office Yamaha mandated in order to make clear regarding your report on YH-5000SE .............

 

[Palladium]

I think that is mostly true. However, I spend a lot of time over on Head-Fi and it is pretty clear that there are a lot of folks there spending way more than they can reasonably afford on headphones and other audiophile gear.

Little story... A few years back, I invited a guy over to my house for a listening session. He wanted to compare my electrostatic amplifier to one he was considering buying. He brought over the amp, STAX 009 headphones, audiophile cables (because I don't play that game), a DAC, etc. In all, it was easily 20K of gear. Very nice person too. He arrived at my house in a beat up old van. I learned that he works as a postman and has three young children. (Edit: I think I'm being a bit too judgmental here. I don't know enough about his life to say if his priorities were wrong or what exactly his financial situation was. But the point being that people with middle class jobs buy this stuff.)

This is why I truly believe in ASR's mission. They are a lot of folks who deeply love music and get wrapped up in buying all the expensive gear that they are told is needed or they are missing out. FOMO is powerful, especially with a lot of us obsessives, and most sites encourage it. Head-Fi has a saying: "Welcome to Head-Fi and sorry about your wallet." I find that very sad.

I don't get these people, if they are gonna spend $$$ on bulky desktop HP setups why don't just try out some cheap speakers like the 305P first? I'm amazed by how the 305P tier level speakers sound so incredible for so little money that I have sworn off HPs completely.

 

[phoenixsong]

I don't get these people, if they are gonna spend $$$ on bulky desktop HP setups why don't just try out some cheap speakers like the 305P first? I'm amazed by how the 305P tier level speakers sound so incredible for so little money that I have sworn off HPs completely.

Speakers and headphones are entirely different. Let's talk placement, sound leakage etc

 

[solderdude]

I measured 2 (much, much cheaper) Yamaha headphones. They both have 'clarity' dips.
HPH-MT7

And the generally well liked HPH-MT220

The newer Sennhesier models also have a small dip in the clarity range (around 2-3kHz) but not nearly as deep.

 

[thewas]

Personally I would call though rather the region around 1.5 kHz as "clarity" while the region around 3 kHz as "presence" (see infamous BBC/presence dip), I usually prefer tunings which are slightly elevated in the first and subdued in the latter.