Yamaha RX-V6A 7.2 channel 4K / 8K Dolby AV Receiver Review

[JohnBooty]

I have to add, I just heard a few Yamaha Avr's, not this model, but ones from 6-7 years ago.

One was the Most entry level one, and the other was a top of the line aventage model.

What is disturbing me now, is the measurements he got seem quite mediocre, but hearing those receivers in person (mind you older versions) I was not able to correlate anything negative to the sound from simply listening to them.......???

Would these measurement issues only come out at truly high levels? Are they masked by normal program material, or simply not all that audible in reality?

I would not call the two models I heard at a friends, the ultimate in sound, but as a long time audiophile, I heard nothing truly negative also??

Well, the issue of "how much SINAD do you really need?" is always a popular debate topic.

With a noise floor of 30-40dB even in a very quiet room, the "flaws" of a 75dB SINAD amp vs. a 95dB SINAD amp would generally be totally masked by that noise floor anyway.

On the other side of the argument,

1. SINAD is cumulative for the whole signal chain. So if your target is ___dB of SINAD then everything in the chain actually needs to be above that.
2. It's true that the noise floor in your room generally does not consist of high frequency sounds. So perhaps flaws there would not be as easily masked by the noise floor. But that would generally be outside the realm of fundamental voice/musical frequencies anyway, so IMO not terribly impactful.

Just trying to give both sides of the never-ending debate.

 

[PeteL]

The Costco equivalent of this receiver goes on sale frequently at $399. So this is a $400 receiver and not a $600 one. Costco model number is: Yamaha TSR-700.

Well both have a 600$ MSRPs receiver. They both can go on sale of course they are targeted at large surface department store, but how does it make a 400$ product?, if we start comparing products on whatever deal one can have, wheter it's Black friday at Best Buy, or sales at Costco, then we'd never be able to compare anything, we need a common metric andit's regular price or MSRP, not discounted price!

 

[Rubicon]

Well both have a 600$ MSRPs receiver. They both can go on sale of course they are targeted at large surface department store, but how does it make a 400$ product?, if we start comparing products on whatever deal one can have, wheter it's Black friday at Best Buy, or sales at Costco, then we'd never be able to compare anything, we need a common metric andit's regular price or MSRP, not discounted price!

It is not a deal. Just priced at $400 at Costco. And I would rather buy Denon than this Yamaha.

 

[PeteL]

It is not a deal. Just priced at $400 at Costco. And I would rather buy Denon than this Yamaha.

I currently cannont find it at this price but it might be because they don't show it to Canadians, but according to Yamaha, it'sa 600$ product...
https://usa.yamaha.com/products/audio_visual/av_receivers_amps/tsr-700/index.html

 

[Trouble Maker]

I currently cannont find it at this price but it might be because they don't show it to Canadians, but according to Yamaha, it'sa 600$ product...
https://usa.yamaha.com/products/audio_visual/av_receivers_amps/tsr-700/index.html

It seems like it was maybe limited availability 2 or 3 weeks ago.
https://slickdeals.net/f/14455031-c...nnel-network-a-v-receiver-400-free-s-h-399-99
https://www.reddit.com/r/hometheater/comments/j9dbqb

 

[PeteL]

It seems like it was maybe limited availability 2 or 3 weeks ago.
https://slickdeals.net/f/14455031-c...nnel-network-a-v-receiver-400-free-s-h-399-99
https://www.reddit.com/r/hometheater/comments/j9dbqb

Worded like a discounted price to me... But regardless, can you find a competing Denon for 400$

 

[DuncanTodd]

It seems like it was maybe limited availability 2 or 3 weeks ago.
https://slickdeals.net/f/14455031-c...nnel-network-a-v-receiver-400-free-s-h-399-99
https://www.reddit.com/r/hometheater/comments/j9dbqb

I think they must sell like hotcakes cause of the price, so stock comes and goes. The Costco website often takes them off when stock dwindles, but some stores may still have stocks. Yamaha has those rebranded TSR models on every new line and they are traditionally found cheap at Costco.

 

[Rubicon]

I think they must sell like hotcakes cause of the price, so stock comes and goes. The Costco website often takes them off when stock dwindles but some stores may still stock them. Yamaha has those cheaper rebranded TSR models on every new line and they are traditionally found for cheap on Costco.

There was more than 10 at my local store when I was there last week. They also had a Denon for around same price if i remember correctly.

 

[Vasr]

I have to add, I just heard a few Yamaha Avr's, not this model, but ones from 6-7 years ago.

One was the Most entry level one, and the other was a top of the line aventage model.

What is disturbing me now, is the measurements he got seem quite mediocre, but hearing those receivers in person (mind you older versions) I was not able to correlate anything negative to the sound from simply listening to them.......???

Would these measurement issues only come out at truly high levels? Are they masked by normal program material, or simply not all that audible in reality?

I would not call the two models I heard at a friends, the ultimate in sound, but as a long time audiophile, I heard nothing truly negative also??

I think we passed devices that audibly assault in mainstream brand-name electronics more than 20 years ago. But that does not imply all are similarly good.

Some become obvious in short-term tests (tonal balance or speaker mismatch), some over long-term (fatigue), some only in comparison over time and known material to something much better (this is where the audiophile quest starts).

With the quality of electronics these days, it is easy for anybody to be quite happy with an entry level unit even if it measures poorly unless they have been exposed for a while to something that measures/sounds much better. Have gone through this myself over time.

Applies to speakers even more. These become evident in critical listening as in perceiving "deeper blacks" (less noise/distortion or greater dynamic range), more "balanced sound" (no mid/high humps or insufficient juice to drive low frequencies), less fatigue for hours of listening (distortion and/or tonal balance), etc.

The problem is that these are subjective in the sense that people's hearing balance and abilities differ and vary over age and exposure and hence the perception of quality. So, it is impossible to predict what is "good enough" for one specific person.

So, the practical approach is to buy one that has the best specs and performance that one's budget will allow rather than obsess over whether a lower measuring unit would have been good enough or whether one needs the higher level.

These tests make no guarantees on audibility but that would be missing the point. They can also be useful for detecting lemons within a brand which happens from time to time.

On the other hand, one can get too carried away on the opposite side of the SINAD chasing numbers and oblivious to the price/features. But that is a privilege some have even if equally unwise.

 

[XaVierDK]

The Denon AVR-X3600H is currently going for $800:
https://www.crutchfield.com/S-YntO2...zxxVOAOeL3BSjCzy7DUFWbTQmW7s425hoC7xUQAvD_BwE
(also at Amazon and others).

Down from an MSRP of $1100. Which is roughly double what this costs. Comparing an on-sale price to an MSRP wasn't my point.

 

[PeteL]

I think we passed devices that audibly assault in mainstream brand-name electronics more than 20 years ago. But that does not imply all are similarly good.

Some become obvious in short-term tests (tonal balance or speaker mismatch), some over long-term (fatigue), some only in comparison over time and known material to something much better (this is where the audiophile quest starts).

With the quality of electronics these days, it is easy for anybody to be quite happy with an entry level unit even if it measures poorly unless they have been exposed for a while to something that measures/sounds much better. Have gone through this myself over time.

Applies to speakers even more. These become evident in critical listening as in perceiving "deeper blacks" (less noise/distortion or dynamic dynamic range), more "balanced sound" (no mid/high humps or insufficient juice to drive low frequencies), less fatigue for hours of listening (distortion and/or tonal balance), etc.

The problem is that these are subjective in the sense that people's hearing balance and abilities differ and vary over age and exposure and hence the perception of quality. So, it is impossible to predict what is "good enough" for one specific person.

So, the practical approach is to buy one that has the best specs and performance that one's budget will allow rather than obsess over whether a lower measuring unit would have been good enough or whether one needs the higher level.

These tests make no guarantees on audibility but that would be missing the point. They can also be useful for detecting lemons within a brand which happens from time to time.

On the other hand, one can get too carried away on the opposite side of the SINAD chasing numbers and oblivious to the price/features. But that is a privilege some have even if equally unwise.

It also feels like the way the charts are laid out here, suggest a ranking based on SINAD. but the thing is, In real life I'll take an extra doubling of power for amplification device any days over a few dB's extra SINAD. Plus the thing is, even in term of "engineering challenge" it's not as obvious as Putting a bigger transformer and changing the gain or the transistor. It's quite easy (comparatively) getting a good Sinad on a 50WPC-8R amp

 

[Vasr]

It also feels like the way the charts are laid out here, suggest a ranking based on SINAD. but the thing is, In real life I'll take an extra doubling of power for amplification device any days over a few dB's extra SINAD. Plus the thing is, even in term of "engineering challenge" it's not as obvious as Putting a bigger transformer and changing the gain or the transistor. It's quite easy (comparatively) getting a good Sinad on a 50WPC-8R amp

I agree. I wish there was a composite scoring system (not the subjective panther) for each type of device that normalized for other parameters depending on the type of device and price. SINAD table works when measuring DACs when there isn't much else to consider but even there normalizing with respect to price would be useful.

 

[amirm]

Costco is selling the exact same model rebarnded as TSR-700 for $200 less.

Are we sure they are identical? Usually when the model number is changed for Costco, they also delete a feature or two. My OLED TV for example doesn't have wireless audio streaming. My computer monitor lacks speakers, etc.

 

[infinitesymphony]

It also feels like the way the charts are laid out here, suggest a ranking based on SINAD. but the thing is, In real life I'll take an extra doubling of power for amplification device any days over a few dB's extra SINAD. Plus the thing is, even in term of "engineering challenge" it's not as obvious as Putting a bigger transformer and changing the gain or the transistor. It's quite easy (comparatively) getting a good Sinad on a 50WPC-8R amp

I would gladly take a clean 50 WPC @ 8 ohms, but even that's hard to find for under $500 right now.

 

[GimeDsp]

It seems like mid-range DAC chips from 15-20 years ago would have had better theoretical performance than this. Are DAC sections in AVRs that much harder to implement, do manufacturers no longer have the IP to produce good results on the budget end, or are manufacturers simply restricting the performance of lower-tier models in order to justify the R&D for the $4K boxes that make up the top tier of the AVR SINAD list?

The companies have to cut cost somewhere.
Desktop DAC, SUPER SMALL and lighweight to ship from china to anywhere.
AVR- MUCH bigger and much heavier. packing and shipping costs are going to be a big part of what people outside of china pay.]
If the market for the product doesn't want or demand better performance then it would be stupid(for them) of them to add it.

I have a yamaha TSR7810 and I feel like it checks most the marks for me, but the DAC isn't great. TOO bad but it seems like you need to spend around $1500/$2000 to step up in DAC performance in AVR's

 

[Taddpole]

Down from an MSRP of $1100. Which is roughly double what this costs. Comparing an on-sale price to an MSRP wasn't my point.

I'd rather compare to a real world price than a totally artificial one tbh. But price here is a rather shocking compared to the $600 mentioned here at £650 puts it in ball park of the Denon 2700h at £600 though given the new 8k avrs bug more tempted to look at last years ones.

 

[infinitesymphony]

The companies have to cut cost somewhere.
Desktop DAC, SUPER SMALL and lighweight to ship from china to anywhere.
AVR- MUCH bigger and much heavier. packing and shipping costs are going to be a big part of what people outside of china pay.]
If the market for the product doesn't want or demand better performance then it would be stupid(for them) of them to add it.

Sure. There's also the "I spent so much time setting this stupid thing up that I'm never moving it again" factor. AVRs tend to be near-permanent installation items where other gear cycles out on a more regular basis, so less money to be made from turnover. A lot of licensing fees, too. I'm guessing the low ROI is what prevents Chinese companies from trying to enter this part of the market.

 

[DuncanTodd]

Are we sure they are identical? Usually when the model number is changed for Costco, they also delete a feature or two. My OLED TV for example doesn't have wireless audio streaming. My computer monitor lacks speakers, etc.

Afaik, Yes. Other than having identical specs on paper, this is also a tell:
https://usa.yamaha.com/support/updates/index.html?c=audio_visual&k=TSR-700

 

[Digital Mastering System]

I wonder if Yamaha outsources their low end AVRs to an ODM. The menu looks like something done by a bunch of developers with no product management or QC in-house. Yamaha should still have done better acceptance testing if that is the case.

I was told by a Pioneer rep that ALL AVRs worldwide under $2000 are made at one factory in China. Only flagships are built in Japan, or wherever.

 

[PeteL]

I would gladly take a clean 50 WPC @ 8 ohms, but even that's hard to find for under $500 right now.

If you have a tiny room, ultra efficient speakers and listen to music styles that don't have much dynamic range, you can make that work yes