Yamaha rx-v685 to Fosi v3 Mono - real improvement or new-gear-effect?

[Amuckart]

[EDIT for the folk in the commenting about me “botching” the “test”:

This is not a test result. This is me querying whether a pair of Fosi v3 Monos can really be expected to sound markedly better than a Yamaha RX-V685, all else being equal.

I have not done a level-matched ABX comparison. What I have done is listen to a wide variety of familiar source material at volumes ranging from “quiet background” to “I hope the upstairs neighbours aren’t home” and been very surprised at how much more detailed and layered the sound is compared to what I was getting from my AVR using identical sources. ]

I got a Wiim Pro Plus a couple of weeks ago, and today a pair of Fosi v3 Monos arrived.

I had been intending to use them on my desk, but I plugged them into the Polk floorstanders in my living room and I was seriously surprised by the difference between Wiim RCA -> Yamaha (Pure Direct) -> Polks and the Wiim -> Fosi -> Polks using identical cables.

I was even more surprised by the TV TOSLINK -> Wiim -> Fosi -> Polk chain compared to the TV HDMI 2.1 -> Yamaha -> Polk.

The difference is not small. It’s “don't want to go back to the Yamaha” scale.

Is this to be expected switching from an AVR to these amps, or am I having new-gear effect? I have no practical way to ABX the setup.

My living room is in no way optimised for listening and my listening position is not in the sweet spot. I did do a round of room correction with the Wiim, which I havent done with the Yamaha and the room in this exact configuration, but even with EQ off on the Wiim, things seem to sound a whole lot clearer, with better imaging and resolution than via the Yamaha.

Thanks.

 

[WOLFAGRAM]

I got a Wiim Pro Plus a couple of weeks ago, and today a pair of Fosi v3 Monos arrived.

Congratulations

I had been intending to use them on my desk, but I plugged them into the Polk floorstanders in my living room and I was seriously surprised by the difference between Wiim RCA -> Yamaha (Pure Direct) -> Polks and the Wiim -> Fosi -> Polks using identical cables.

Could be that they simply sound very different. I wonder what do you feed into you system. What matters is not only the quality of recordings, but certain music genres might sound much different (sometimes better) on a different setup. Others might sound outright worse. If you listen to a broad range of music genres and recordings of different quality, you might recognise particular strengths and weaknesses of different setups.

I was even more surprised by the TV TOSLINK -> Wiim -> Fosi -> Polk chain compared to the TV HDMI 2.1 -> Yamaha -> Polk.

Normally, big difference in quality happens when you use multichannel (HDMI being superior). So, on 2.1, difference is most likely due to factors other than TV TOSLINK vs. TV HDMI (but make sure you do not have faulty TOSLINK or HDMI cable).

Is this expected, or am I having new-gear effect? I have no practical way to ABX the setup.

Again, perhaps it sounds different and perhaps in this case different being more to you personal tastes or because it is more appropriate for what you feed your system with.

My living room is in no way optimised for listening and my listening position is not in the sweet spot. I did do a round of room correction with the Wiim, which I havent done with the Yamaha and the room in this exact configuration, but even with EQ off on the Wiim, things seem to sound a whole lot clearer, with better imaging and resolution than via the Yamaha.

As you said, your room is not optimised and neither your listening position. Also, Wiim (and similar) corrections are far behind "proper" corrections (with calibrated high quality mics and pro-level software) and it is hard to say if they did not exacerbated one problem by fixing another.


I hope I was not way too vague (I am only a hobby sound guy) and at least a bit helpful.

Cheers

 

[Amuckart]

Could be that they simply sound very different. I wonder what do you feed into you system. What matters is not only the quality of recordings, but certain music genres might sound much different (sometimes better) on a different setup. Others might sound outright worse. If you listen to a broad range of music genres and recordings of different quality, you might recognise particular strengths and weaknesses of different setups.

They absolutely sound very different, but it’s more than tone. As much as I dislike trying to subjectively describe musical experience there’s markedly more detail coming through via the Fosi’s than via the Yamaha and the bass extension is significantly better through the Fosi’s (EQ bypassed in both cases).

All I’m doing when listening to music is replacing a single component in the chain, leaving the source and transducers identical and just swapping the amp.

I’ve played a variety of things so far and

Normally, big difference in quality happens when you use multichannel (HDMI being superior). So, on 2.1, difference is most likely due to factors other than TV TOSLINK vs. TV HDMI (but make sure you do not have faulty TOSLINK or HDMI cable).

The TV shift was just an experiment. Before I did that I’d literally just shifted the Wiim’s line-out cable and the speaker cables from Yamaha to the Fosi’s.

My multichannel setup uses a completely different set of speakers.

Again, perhaps it sounds different and perhaps in this case different being more to you personal tastes or because it is more appropriate for what you feed your system with.

That is certainly possible, yes.

As you said, your room is not optimised and neither your listening position. Also, Wiim (and similar) corrections are far behind "proper" corrections (with calibrated high quality mics and pro-level software) and it is hard to say if they did not exacerbated one problem by fixing another.

True, but none of those factors change when I swap amps, and with EQ bypassed there is still a significant difference. I do prefer the sound with room correction, by with no EQ the Fosi’s still sound a lot more detailed than the Yamaha.


Thanks.

 

[Doodski]

@Amuckart. Comparing amps by switching out speaker cables and inputs is a very difficult way to compare them against each other because there is such a extended time period between switching them out.

 

[Doublej]

You don't mention anything about matching the output levels of the two amps at the speakers, did you?

 

[Doodski]

You don't mention anything about matching the output levels of the two amps at the speakers, did you?

It seems this was a informal test, not a level matched proper comparison and the result is now botched, unreliable and lacking integrity.

 

[WOLFAGRAM]

@Amuckart. Comparing amps by switching out speaker cables and inputs is a very difficult way to compare them against each other because there is such a extended time period between switching them out.

Here is a relatively cheap sollution for that problem: https://doukaudio.com/products/douk...elector-stereo-switcher-for-amplifier-speaker

 

[JeremyFife]

Luckily, your new gear sounds better (to you: sighted comparison, no level matching, no criticism from me). Connect it up, listen to music, be happy.

If you want to *know* then you will need to go back: measure what you can, level match (by voltage) and apply some blind listening controls. If you enjoy doing that then that's cool, and part of the hobby for some.
Personally, I'd just enjoy the music