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Yamaha RX-A3080 Review (AVR)

Rate this AVR

  • 1. Poor (headless panther)

    Votes: 42 21.8%
  • 2. Not terrible (postman panther)

    Votes: 111 57.5%
  • 3. Fine (happy panther)

    Votes: 31 16.1%
  • 4. Great (golfing panther)

    Votes: 9 4.7%

  • Total voters
    193

Macsalad

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Why do you wish you read this review before getting the 3080? And, what are you trying to improve by running additional amps to power surround and effect speakers. The Yammy amps are no slouches and will serve you well for the other speakers in your system.
The question is whether I will get a better sound with an exthermal amp instead of using the Yamaha amp? I simply don’t know. Thank you in advance.
 

Digital911

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Amir was trying to measure the preamp output at 2 4 Vrms (if he was using balanced output), when the AVR went into protection mode. For normal use you will not likely have such issue unless you crank the volume up really high and leave it there long enough.

The preamp outputs are typically used for driving external power amps. You cannot "shut them off" as such but with the 3080 you can apparently disconnect the internal front left and front right channel power amps from the corresponding preamp outputs using certain amp assign settings. With the internal amps disconnected from their corresponding preamp outputs, those internal power amps will still be "powered", but since they no longer get a signal from the preamp, they will have nothing to amplify and will therefore be just idling, using very little power.

If you want to disconnect all of the internal power amp channels then you will have to go with AVRs that have the "preamp mode" feature such as Denon and Marantz's. When in preamp mode, those AVRs will effectively be used as a preamp/processor as all of the preamp channel outputs will be disconnected from the internal power amp inputs.
Can you explain a little more what the difference of say a Yamaha RX-A8A LCR channels running in pre out mode compared to a new Denon 4800 that has the ability to shut down individual channels of the onboard amp.

Here's what I'm trying to accomplish with the RX-A8A. I want to run a 7.1.4 system with it but the LCR channels I want to use an external amp via pre outs. What I'd like is the remaining onboard powered channels to be able to use the power of the onboard amp that would have been powering the LCR channels. I cannot get a clear answer whether this A8A would perform this way in this configuration.

If it does perform this way, what is the advantage of the new generation Denon 4800 with it's ability to shut down the amp channels?
 

peng

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Can you explain a little more what the difference of say a Yamaha RX-A8A LCR channels running in pre out mode compared to a new Denon 4800 that has the ability to shut down individual channels of the onboard amp.

Here's what I'm trying to accomplish with the RX-A8A. I want to run a 7.1.4 system with it but the LCR channels I want to use an external amp via pre outs. What I'd like is the remaining onboard powered channels to be able to use the power of the onboard amp that would have been powering the LCR channels. I cannot get a clear answer whether this A8A would perform this way in this configuration.

If it does perform this way, what is the advantage of the new generation Denon 4800 with it's ability to shut down the amp channels?

I don't know anything about the A8A except what's in the manual. I can tell you with the Denon, you can disconnect the individual channel pairs and the center channel so that the power amp's distortion won't influence the quality of the pre outs. "shut down the amp channels" is ambiguous, in the Denon preamp mode, it disconnects the internal power amps to the pre out but the power amps would still be "powered", just not getting the input signal from the preamp.

The advantage of the preamp mode is, it allows the preamp outputs to have lower distortions at higher output levels, and it saves a little energy as well as letting the unit to run a little cooler.

The advantage of not using the preamp mode but just disconnect the channels that you will be using external amps, is so that you can use some the internal amps to drive speakers that don't need as much juice. If you use preamp mode that you cannot use any of the power internal amp channels.
 

iraweiss

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Can you explain a little more what the difference of say a Yamaha RX-A8A LCR channels running in pre out mode compared to a new Denon 4800 that has the ability to shut down individual channels of the onboard amp.

Here's what I'm trying to accomplish with the RX-A8A. I want to run a 7.1.4 system with it but the LCR channels I want to use an external amp via pre outs. What I'd like is the remaining onboard powered channels to be able to use the power of the onboard amp that would have been powering the LCR channels. I cannot get a clear answer whether this A8A would perform this way in this configuration.

If it does perform this way, what is the advantage of the new generation Denon 4800 with it's ability to shut down the amp channels?
First, I wish Amir had discovered that you can do the amp reassign for the front two amps during testing as he would have not run into the problems he encountered when testing the 3080. This ties directly into your question.

As an example, I am running a 7.2.4 system with my 3080. I am using 11 channel External Power Amplifier "Front" with two Outlaw 2220 powering the front left and right channels. For how to do this on the 3080 go to pages 31 and 34 of that manual. The internal Yamaha amps that would normally power the front left and right front channels are now assigned to the "presence" channels.

Two caveats: First, with the 3080 the Zone 3 output jacks are disabled. This unnecessary deficiency was eliminated with the A6A and A8A.

Second, if you use the balanced outputs you may overdrive the rest of the channels as YPAO will attempt to balance the surround and other channels to the front channels. You may have to balance the channels by meter.

Now to the A8A. Read pages 79-83 of the A8A manual. You don't have to hook up any speakers to an additional zone.
 

Digital911

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I don't know anything about the A8A except what's in the manual. I can tell you with the Denon, you can disconnect the individual channel pairs and the center channel so that the power amp's distortion won't influence the quality of the pre outs. "shut down the amp channels" is ambiguous, in the Denon preamp mode, it disconnects the internal power amps to the pre out but the power amps would still be "powered", just not getting the input signal from the preamp.

The advantage of the preamp mode is, it allows the preamp outputs to have lower distortions at higher output levels, and it saves a little energy as well as letting the unit to run a little cooler.

The advantage of not using the preamp mode but just disconnect the channels that you will be using external amps, is so that you can use some the internal amps to drive speakers that don't need as much juice. If you use preamp mode that you cannot use any of the power internal amp channels.
So if I understand you correctly, you're saying that I will in fact get more power for the remainding speakers connected directly to the A8A, that would have otherwise gone to the LCR channels that are now running via pre outs on an external amp. Is that correct?
 

Digital911

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First, I wish Amir had discovered that you can do the amp reassign for the front two amps during testing as he would have not run into the problems he encountered when testing the 3080. This ties directly into your question.

As an example, I am running a 7.2.4 system with my 3080. I am using 11 channel External Power Amplifier "Front" with two Outlaw 2220 powering the front left and right channels. For how to do this on the 3080 go to pages 31 and 34 of that manual. The internal Yamaha amps that would normally power the front left and right front channels are now assigned to the "presence" channels.

Two caveats: First, with the 3080 the Zone 3 output jacks are disabled. This unnecessary deficiency was eliminated with the A6A and A8A.

Second, if you use the balanced outputs you may overdrive the rest of the channels as YPAO will attempt to balance the surround and other channels to the front channels. You may have to balance the channels by meter.

Now to the A8A. Read pages 79-83 of the A8A manual. You don't have to hook up any speakers to an additional zone.
But does this reserve more power for the reminder of the speakers that are directly connected to the Yamaha if I were running LCR via external amp via Yamaha pre outs and if I were running the remainder of the 7.1.4 system directly through the Yamaha speaker terminals?
 

Trell

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So if I understand you correctly, you're saying that I will in fact get more power for the remainding speakers connected directly to the A8A, that would have otherwise gone to the LCR channels that are now running via pre outs on an external amp. Is that correct?

No, he wrote that the the pre-outs will have less distortion at higher output levels when disconnected from the internal amps. Tough, the internal surrounds amps might perform better in some cases if using the LCR amps is already taxing the receiver that is now offloaded to an external amplifier.
 

Digital911

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No, he wrote that the the pre-outs will have less distortion at higher output levels when disconnected from the internal amps. Tough, the internal surrounds amps might perform better in some cases if using the LCR amps is already taxing the receiver that is now offloaded to an external amplifier.
Yeah thats for the Denon. But my question is in regards to the Yamaha. I looked in the manual and this info is not present, at least that I could find. I simply want to know if the onboard amp will have extra wattage for the channels that remain directly connected, when running the LCR channels via pre outs to external amp.
 

Trell

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Yeah thats for the Denon. But my question is in regards to the Yamaha. I looked in the manual and this info is not present, at least that I could find. I simply want to know if the onboard amp will have extra wattage for the channels that remain directly connected, when running the LCR channels via pre outs to external amp.
That is unlikely, unless in edge cases where using the LCR internal amps stresses the receiver so much that the surround amps are not performing as designed. A 120W surround channel amp will continue to be a 120W amp, even when using external amps for LCR.
 

Digital911

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That is unlikely, unless in edge cases where using the LCR internal amps stresses the receiver so much that the surround amps are not performing as designed. A 120W surround channel amp will continue to be a 120W amp, even when using external amps for LCR.
Let me restate that. I didn't mean to say "extra wattage". I meant to say will the onboard amp have more headroom for the remaining onboard speakers (if the LCR channels were pre-outed through external amp) than if the LCR channels were also onboard.
 

Doodski

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Let me restate that. I didn't mean to say "extra wattage". I meant to say will the onboard amp have more headroom for the remaining onboard speakers (if the LCR channels were pre-outed through external amp) than if the LCR channels were also onboard.
The mains power supply will have more power allocated to the channels that are still connected to the surround sound receiver. So... yes, more headroom is available.
 

Digital911

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Ok that's what I want. So then I'm trying to understand what say a Denon 4800 or Marantz Cinema 50 would do for me in this regard with their ability to shut down these channels. Is it just less distortion to the pre outs as one of the other members suggested?
 

Doodski

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Ok that's what I want. So then I'm trying to understand what say a Denon 4800 or Marantz Cinema 50 would do for me in this regard with their ability to shut down these channels. Is it just less distortion to the pre outs as one of the other members suggested?
Firstly the pre-output for LCR is a bonus feature for hard core HiFi peeps such as yourself. It is for having a proper amplifier(s) connected to the RCL speakers and not choking them with weaker type amplifier circuitry. If you are planning on running some class D amps for the RCL then that is the way to go if you want a HiFi system and a AV system. If me I would operate a fan on top of whatever surround sound unit you buy.
 

Trell

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Firstly the pre-output for LCR is a bonus feature for hard core HiFi peeps such as yourself. It is for having a proper amplifier(s) connected to the RCL speakers and not choking them with weaker type amplifier circuitry. If you are planning on running some class D amps for the RCL then that is the way to go if you want a HiFi system and a AV system. If me I would operate a fan on top of whatever surround sound unit you buy.

Quite possibly it will not matter that much for surrounds as there is much less content there compared to LCR, unless the AVR was already struggling with his speakers and preferred sound level in his room. For the LCR it can be quite an improvement with external amplifiers, depending on the use case.

And putting cooling fans on top of the AVR is an excellent idea, and I've done that on top of my 2015 model Denon AVR for 4-5 years.
 
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Doodski

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Quite possibly it will not matter that much for surrounds as there is much less content there compared to LCR, unless the AVR was already struggling with his speakers and preferred sound level in his room. For the LCR it can be quite an improvement with external amplifiers, depending on the use case.
Yes, and no. What if the user switches into a mainly 5 channel surround mode for music and that loads down the rears pretty good. @Sal1950 do you run your Adcom amps on the rear setup too for 4 or 5 channel music listening? I'm curious because you have 4 JBL tower speakers and those should go pretty good in 4 or 5 channel operation for music. What is your experience with external amps combined with internal amps.
 

Trell

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Yes, and no. What if the user switches into a mainly 5 channel surround mode for music and that loads down the rears pretty good. @Sal1950 do you run your Adcom amps on the rear setup too for 4 or 5 channel music listening? I'm curious because you have 4 JBL tower speakers and those should go pretty good in 4 or 5 channel operation for music. What is your experience with external amps combined with internal amps.

You mean like all-channel-stereo? Yeah, that will give the AVR some exercise. :) The few times I've tried out upmixing stereo to five channel, there is not that much there compared to LCR. Few of my multi-channel 140+ multi-channel SACD surrounds are comparatively working hard at all.
 

Digital911

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You mean like all-channel-stereo? Yeah, that will give the AVR some exercise. :) The few times I've tried out upmixing stereo to five channel, there is not that much there compared to LCR. Few of my multi-channel 140+ multi-channel SACD surrounds are comparatively working hard at all.
Ok I get all that but with the Yamaha I can run the LCRs in pre outs. So what then is the bonus for using a new gen Marantz or Denon? I still don't get it.

Firstly the pre-output for LCR is a bonus feature for hard core HiFi peeps such as yourself. It is for having a proper amplifier(s) connected to the RCL speakers and not choking them with weaker type amplifier circuitry. If you are planning on running some class D amps for the RCL then that is the way to go if you want a HiFi system and a AV system. If me I would operate a fan on top of whatever surround sound unit you buy.
Quite possibly it will not matter that much for surrounds as there is much less content there compared to LCR, unless the AVR was already struggling with his speakers and preferred sound level in his room. For the LCR it can be quite an improvement with external amplifiers, depending on the use case.

And putting cooling fans on top of the AVR is an excellent idea, and I've done that on top of my 2015 model Denon AVR for 4-5 years.
Ok I get all that but with the Yamaha I can run the LCRs in pre outs. So what then is the bonus for using a new gen Marantz or Denon? I still don't get it.
 

Doodski

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Ok I get all that but with the Yamaha I can run the LCRs in pre outs. So what then is the bonus for using a new gen Marantz or Denon? I still don't get it.
Have you read the latest ASR review on the Denon surround sound receiver(s)? It does appear that Denon has decreased in specification and test results. Have you read the manual on the new Denon or Marantz to figure out if disabling channels can be done?
 

peng

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Ok that's what I want. So then I'm trying to understand what say a Denon 4800 or Marantz Cinema 50 would do for me in this regard with their ability to shut down these channels. Is it just less distortion to the pre outs as one of the other members suggested?

It also will have more headroom because the power supply will have fewer mouths to feed, but it is not a whole lot because the power amps for those channels will still be limited by the output current limit of the output devices.
 

Digital911

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Have you read the latest ASR review on the Denon surround sound receiver(s)? It does appear that Denon has decreased in specification and test results. Have you read the manual on the new Denon or Marantz to figure out if disabling channels can be done?
No I haven't read the manual. I will do that. I am going off what Marantz was saying on one of their promo videos.
 
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