Yamaha RN602 - how to connect two subs?

[Subob]

I have a Yamaha RN602 network amp and have been using an Elac Debut S10 sub with it quite happily (my very old Floorstanding Monitor Audio speakers appreciate the help). If I ever decided to add a second sub, to see if all that talk about a smoother bass response etc is true, how would I do it please?

I've included stock pics to save you looking them up.

The Yamaha only has one sub out RCA, and the Elac only has Left & Right RCA line in. I currently have one single RCA cable from the sub out on the Yamaha to the LFE/Left in on the Elac.

I can't see how I could daisy chain to a second sub when the Elac doesn't have an output. Is a splitter cable called for from the Yamaha?, and were I to get a matching Elac, would I still just go into LFE/Left only on each sub?
Or is another option to run left and right to each sub from the B speaker terminals on the Yamaha?, although I'm not sure if there's even an option to play speakers A + B simultaneously?

Thanks in advance.

 

[Rick63]

All you need is a splitter cable and another sub cable and yes, you would hook a sub cable to each subwoofer's LFE/left channel input.

 

[Subob]

All you need is a splitter cable and another sub cable and yes, you would hook a sub cable to each subwoofer's LFE/left channel input.

View attachment 502281

Thanks, that's nice and simple then, and what I was hoping for.

It does beg the next question, though, just out of curiosity. What's the point of left and right being on the Elac if I'm only using the LFE/Left? In the set up you describe, would I effectively be running two mono subs?

 

[staticV3]

In the set up you describe, would I effectively be running two mono subs?

Yes, as one should.

The L/R input on your Elac is for sources w/o dedicated Sub out.

 

[Chrispy]

Thanks, that's nice and simple then, and what I was hoping for.

It does beg the next question, though, just out of curiosity. What's the point of left and right being on the Elac if I'm only using the LFE/Left? In the set up you describe, would I effectively be running two mono subs?

Sub pre-out is mono. You only need sub to sum to mono via l/r inputs if your preouts are only l/r.

 

[Subob]

Yes, as one should.

The L/R input on your Elac is for sources w/o dedicated Sub out.

That makes sense, thanks.

 

[Chagall]

One more option, that is much more hands on, but is the best way to do it, is to get miniDsp 2x4 HD and Umik mic.

Y-splitter works, but with miniDsp you can offload your amp and speakers with highpass filter and set a more precise crossover for both subs. I don't think your Yamaha has full bass management (it has a fixed 90Hz crossover, but not highpass filter for the mains) so your speakers are receiving full-range signal - playing bass along with subs.

 

[early rejecter]

One more option, that is much more hands on, but is the best way to do it, is to get miniDsp 2x4 HD and Umik mic.

Perhaps with an older Yamaha (I use one with an R-S700), but with no tape monitor ability or external pre-amp output / main input, there’s no good way to incorporate a miniDSP with this model (unless one only ever uses a single analog and single digital, external source I suppose).

 

[Chagall]

Perhaps with an older Yamaha (I use one with an R-S700), but with no tape monitor ability or external pre-amp output / main input, there’s no good way to incorporate a miniDSP with this model (unless one only ever uses a single analog and single digital, external source I suppose).

Yes, guess I should have asked how many inputs he uses. If one digital is enough, then it works. Alternatively, he can connect up to 4 subs with miniDsp, but no highpass filter then.

 

[Subob]

One more option, that is much more hands on, but is the best way to do it, is to get miniDsp 2x4 HD and Umik mic.

Y-splitter works, but with miniDsp you can offload your amp and speakers with highpass filter and set a more precise crossover for both subs. I don't think your Yamaha has full bass management (it has a fixed 90Hz crossover, but not highpass filter for the mains) so your speakers are receiving full-range signal - playing bass along with subs.

Thanks for the DSP suggestion, but that's beyond me on several fronts. Financially, I'm not really willing to fork out £400. Practically, my laptop doesn't go anywhere near my hifi, and ability wise, after over 40 yrs owning various hifi separates, I'm still asking newbie cabling questions, lol )

What did interest me about your post, however, was your mention of my Yamaha's fixed 90hz crossover, since I checked the manual, and you're indeed quite correct...

SUBWOOFER PRE OUT .....................................4.0 V / 1.2 kΩ
(Cut off frequency) ............................................................90 Hz

Here's some other figures for you so that maybe you can tell me what's going on in layman's terms?

Monitor Audio R952MD floorstanding speakers:

Two-way, sealed-box, floor-standing loudspeaker. Drive-units: 1" (25mm) metal-dome tweeter, two 165mm polypropylene-cone bass/midrange drivers. Crossover frequency: 4.2kHz. Frequency response: 45Hz–20kHz ±3dB. Sensitivity: 89dB/W/m. Nominal impedance: 8 ohms. Amplifier requirements: 15–180W.

Elac Debut S10 subwoofer:

Enclosure Type Bass Reex Amplier Type BASH Tracking Maximum Amplier Power 200 Was Peak/100 Was RMS Frequency Response 35Hz - 150Hz Crossover Frequency 50Hz - 150Hz Driver 10" High Excursion Doped Paper Cabinet CARB2 Rated MDF Port Dual Flared Passive Radiator N/A Cabinet Finish Black Brushed Vinyl Dimension (WxHxD) 13.5" x 13.5" x13.5”

I currently have the sub set at around 80hz and phase position at 0 degrees. It all sounds nice enough to my old ears as the sub just gives me that added weight when called upon, without ever intruding on the main speakers. There's no 'problem' to fix as it were, just a small curiosity as to what two subs might bring.

 

[Subob]

Perhaps with an older Yamaha (I use one with an R-S700), but with no tape monitor ability or external pre-amp output / main input, there’s no good way to incorporate a miniDSP with this model (unless one only ever uses a single analog and single digital, external source I suppose).

Yeah, I use pretty much all the outputs on the Yamaha RN602. That's what drew me to it in the first place. I have no wish to be using DSP.

 

[Chagall]

Thanks for the DSP suggestion, but that's beyond me on several fronts. Financially, I'm not really willing to fork out £400. Practically, my laptop doesn't go anywhere near my hifi, and ability wise, after over 40 yrs owning various hifi separates, I'm still asking newbie cabling questions, lol )

What did interest me about your post, however, was your mention of my Yamaha's fixed 90hz crossover, since I checked the manual, and you're indeed quite correct...

SUBWOOFER PRE OUT .....................................4.0 V / 1.2 kΩ
(Cut off frequency) ............................................................90 Hz

Here's some other figures for you so that maybe you can tell me what's going on in layman's terms?

Monitor Audio R952MD floorstanding speakers:

Two-way, sealed-box, floor-standing loudspeaker. Drive-units: 1" (25mm) metal-dome tweeter, two 165mm polypropylene-cone bass/midrange drivers. Crossover frequency: 4.2kHz. Frequency response: 45Hz–20kHz ±3dB. Sensitivity: 89dB/W/m. Nominal impedance: 8 ohms. Amplifier requirements: 15–180W.

Elac Debut S10 subwoofer:

Enclosure Type Bass Reex Amplier Type BASH Tracking Maximum Amplier Power 200 Was Peak/100 Was RMS Frequency Response 35Hz - 150Hz Crossover Frequency 50Hz - 150Hz Driver 10" High Excursion Doped Paper Cabinet CARB2 Rated MDF Port Dual Flared Passive Radiator N/A Cabinet Finish Black Brushed Vinyl Dimension (WxHxD) 13.5" x 13.5" x13.5”

I currently have the sub set at around 80hz and phase position at 0 degrees. It all sounds nice enough to my old ears as the sub just gives me that added weight when called upon, without ever intruding on the main speakers. There's no 'problem' to fix as it were, just a small curiosity as to what two subs might bring.

Your Monitor Audio speakers are easy to drive - the impedance doesn’t dip below 7 ohms and sensitivity is 89 dB/W/m, which is very amp-friendly. So there’s nothing here that should worry the Yamaha.

Unfortunately, this is the only measurement I’ve been able to find for your speakers, but as you said, it sounds nicely integrated, which suggests you have matched the speakers natural roll-off well with the sub:

Monitor Audio R952MD loudspeaker Measurements | Stereophile.com

Sidebar 2: Measurements The frequency response of the speakers was measured in the room—spatially averaged across the listening window in order to minimize the effects of low-frequency standing waves—using 1/3-octave pink noise; this also gives an idea of a speaker's dispersion characteristic in...

www.stereophile.com

The reality is that without measurements in your own room, it's impossible to know exactly where you might have peaks or dips in the bass response. That's where adding a second sub can help - not by adding more bass, but by smoothing room modes. However, without measurements it becomes a bit of a guessing game: where to place the second sub, phase, level matching, crossover setting...

It can still work well by ear, but measurements make the process far more predictable.