Yamaha R-N803 Smart Receiver Review

[digicidal]

I'm not sure how MiniDSP must be connected.
Is there some scheme (link) or can someone explain to me please?

I'm thinking is like this but not sure:
Source->MiniDSP->Amp->Speakers

Can it go like this?
Source->Amp->MiniDSP->Speakers

If can only goes like this (Source->MiniDSP->Amp->Speakers) then I can go without MiniDSP and only use PC and Equalizer APO with REW measurement's.

Only the first one will work. There is no high-level input on any MiniDSP devices other than plate amps for subwoofers - at least not that I've seen.

 

[Robbo99999]

I'm not sure how MiniDSP must be connected.
Is there some scheme (link) or can someone explain to me please?

I'm thinking is like this but not sure:
Source->MiniDSP->Amp->Speakers

Can it go like this?
Source->Amp->MiniDSP->Speakers

If can only goes like this (Source->MiniDSP->Amp->Speakers) then I can go without MiniDSP and only use PC and Equalizer APO with REW measurement's.
PC (with Equalizer APO)->Amp->Speakers

I'm familiar with 2 of the miniDSP products, one of them I own which is the minDSP 2x4 (https://www.minidsp.com/products/minidsp-in-a-box/minidsp-2x4 ), and the miniDSP 2x4HD which I've read about (https://www.minidsp.com/products/minidsp-in-a-box/minidsp-2x4-hd ) and is also the one I linked you to the audiosciencereview. The miniDSP 2x4 only accepts line level analogue inputs up to 2V, whereas the miniDSP 2x4HD accepts optical inputs / USB inputs / and analogue inputs (also at a maximum input of 2V). So you can only use them with Line Level type inputs when you're referring to analogue connections, you can't stick them inbetween an amp and speakers that's designed to drive passive speakers. Which is probably why they best fit logical use with Active speakers.

 

[Robbo99999]

If can only goes like this (Source->MiniDSP->Amp->Speakers) then I can go without MiniDSP and only use PC and Equalizer APO with REW measurement's.
PC (with Equalizer APO)->Amp->Speakers

The beauty of the miniDSP systems is that once you've set them up using your in room measurements & REW, then they can be standalone items that sit between your 'dumb' source and your speakers. So I'm referring to using it with non-intelligent sources like TV's or simple audio players that don't have sophisticated EQ capabilities themselves. So from TV's you'd use things like the RCA analogue connectors or the Optical Out and your PC wouldn't be involved. If you're only interested in getting EQ capabilities from your PC as a playback source then there's not much point in using a miniDSP because as you say you can use Equaliser APO instead, and that is more flexible than miniDSP too. It's the standalone nature of the miniDSP so that it can be used with 'dumb' sources and it's ability to accept a few other inputs which is it's main attraction. That also fits the context of this Yamaha review too....it's not related to playback from PC's (much).

 

[djigibao]

OK, tnx
Can we get the same results with REW + Equalizer APO then or MiniDSP can do better?

 

[Robbo99999]

OK, tnx
Can we get the same results with REW + Equalizer APO then or MiniDSP can do better?

In my usage scenarios I use both Equaliser APO and miniDSP, but not together. I use Equaliser APO for music playback from my PC laptop to my JBL 308 speakers. I use a miniDSP inbetween my TV and those same JBL 308 speakers too. I use a manual switch box at the 'junction point' to switch between the speakers accepting input from the miniDSP channel or from the PC laptop channel. And I've use REW to create roomEQ filters for both miniDSP & Equaliser APO. Equaliser APO can use an infinite number of filters in combination to achieve RoomEQ and can do literally a million other things (well not literally!). My miniDSP 2x4 is limited to 2 banks of 6 EQ filters, so I've got 12 EQ filters total to play with to create roomEQ for each channel, which is just about enough, but you have to get creative with their use or make some compromises. (miniDSP 2x4HD has a few more EQ filters: 2 banks of 10 EQ filters so 20 in total I think). Using Equaliser APO you can use as many filters as you want, but on the same token that might not be the best approach as you don't want to get silly and use too many and EQ stuff that you don't need to EQ, but that's a seperate point. Equaliser APO is definitely more flexible though. miniDSP is just for certain use cases, mainly based around whether you're connecting to 'dumb' or 'smart' equipment. In short you get better results from Equaliser APO than miniDSP all other things being equal.

 

[civi]

I wonder if r-n803d still isn't good choice for simple 2.1 streaming setup, with integrated eq, hi pass etc.

Also - polish audio.com.pl measured r-n303d to have even better power/noise. Their measurements tend to be inconsistent with ones here (eg much worse performance of wxa-50).

 

[dwkdnvr]

I wonder if r-n803d still isn't good choice for simple 2.1 streaming setup, with integrated eq, hi pass etc.

Also - polish audio.com.pl measured r-n303d to have even better power/noise. Their measurements tend to be inconsistent with ones here (eg much worse performance of wxa-50).

Unless I'm missing something (can't read Polish, and google translate messed up the formatting to make it unusable), the Polish measurements are comparable to the "non-Pure-direct" measurements Amir got. Browsing the manual for the r-n303d doesn't have any reference to a Pure Direct mode, so it's possible that it's not available on that unit, in which case it isn't really performing any better than other receivers. Their distortion plot does look pretty reasonable though, although dominated by odd-order.

Would be nice to see Yamaha take just the amp section of the r-n803 and sell it as a standalone power amp. If they could sell a 120/175 W amp with 93dB sinad for even $499, it would be competitive with most stuff we've seen tested. The perverse pricing in the audio world would probably mean they have to sell it for more than the receiver to break even, though - thus defeating the purpose. (or, perhaps since they know that power amps are upscale by nature, they simply would sell it for more.)

 

[amadeuswus]

Would be nice to see Yamaha take just the amp section of the r-n803 and sell it as a standalone power amp. If they could sell a 120/175 W amp with 93dB sinad for even $499, it would be competitive with most stuff we've seen tested.

If I am understanding the ASR post below correctly, the amp section of the Yamaha R-N803 is itself a "recycled" amplifier similar, for example, to the amp section of the Yamaha A-S701:

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...nals-few-measurements.9459/page-3#post-284411

 

[Astrozombie]

Now I'm really curious about the Cambridge stereo receivers.

 

[maty]

[Polish] https://audio.com.pl/testy/stereo/amplitunery-stereo/f/1742-cambridge-audio

CAMBRIDGE AUDIO AXR100
-> https://audio.com.pl/testy/stereo/amplitunery-stereo/3183-cambridge-audio-axr100

https://www.amazon.com/gp/customer-...=cm_cr_othr_d_rvw_ttl?ie=UTF8&ASIN=B07SM233YP

[ The fan in the CA AXR-100 is distractingly loud. It is louder than the Professional Server at work that uses 2 fans. Even behind glass doors in the equipment rack across the room! If this one “quirk” had been thought through and resolved, this would be a fantastic bargain for a core unit in a high quality audio system. ]


CAMBRIDGE AUDIO Topaz SR20
https://audio.com.pl/testy/stereo/amplitunery-stereo/2925-cambridge-audio-topaz-sr20

 

[civi]

Unless I'm missing something (can't read Polish, and google translate messed up the formatting to make it unusable), the Polish measurements are comparable to the "non-Pure-direct" measurements Amir got. Browsing the manual for the r-n303d doesn't have any reference to a Pure Direct mode, so it's possible that it's not available on that unit, in which case it isn't really performing any better than other receivers. Their distortion plot does look pretty reasonable though, although dominated by odd-order.

Would be nice to see Yamaha take just the amp section of the r-n803 and sell it as a standalone power amp. If they could sell a 120/175 W amp with 93dB sinad for even $499, it would be competitive with most stuff we've seen tested. The perverse pricing in the audio world would probably mean they have to sell it for more than the receiver to break even, though - thus defeating the purpose. (or, perhaps since they know that power amps are upscale by nature, they simply would sell it for more.)

For what is worth.. I'm polish. They don't specify conditions for measurements but their impression of YPAO is very positive, describing no audible downsides to using it.

From measurements alone, if not using sub / ypao (introducting noise floor, as described by amir) - r-n303 really seems like a bargain. Although its so entry level some would grumble.

[ The fan in the CA AXR-100 is distractingly loud. It is louder than the Professional Server at work that uses 2 fans. Even behind glass doors in the equipment rack across the room! If this one “quirk” had been thought through and resolved, this would be a fantastic bargain for a core unit in a high quality audio system. ]

Replacing the fan with some noctua seem like easies DYI mod one can do.
CA amps measure well but are rather poor with features. If I wanted some all-in-one I'd at least want airplay or aac bt.

 

[maty]

It is the usual practice with many professional stages. Last week a family member had to change two 8 cm rear fans of an old PC (all components chosen by me, those fans already came with the box), one did not work and the other made a little noise, annoying, less when we cleaned inside. Now he can not hear but the processor fan, which came standard with the old AMD.

Only 12 dBA at 1 meter. Two: 15 dBA at 1m. The human ear begins to hear from 19-21 dBA.

€ 4 each in a physical store cost him. Just over € 2 each on Amazon.es plus shipping. Cambridge sure cost them much less, a shame that they want to save where they should not.

 

[b1daly]

My overall take on this product. If you were limiting yourself to two channels only (like this product does), then wouldn't it instead make more sense to buy active speakers, a miniDSP and a seperate DAC, which you'd combine with REW to perform your room EQ....at which point you'd end up with even greater room EQ flexibility as well as massively improved sound quality (as seen by the large increase in noise when room EQ mode is activated on this Yamaha unit). I think the cost of the miniDSP and seperate DAC would be cheaper than the cost of this Yamaha unit whilst gaining increased roomEQ abilities and also improved sound quality. (I guess you might miss out on some input connectivity options, but I've not looked at that in detail.)

What you guys think, am I right about this, or have I overlooked some stuff? I think the only argument for this Yamaha product is if you've already got passive speakers you're happy with, rather than someone setting out to build a whole new 2-channel system.

It really depends on your source.

If you mainly listen to CDs and have a player with a digital out, then the miniDSP could be good.

But it doesn't make sense to me to invest in separate DAW and miniDSP...then what is your source? You've got a round trip on AD-DA on the MiniDSP, which isn't all that great. If your source is a computer, then all you need is a decent USB DAC, and you can run an EQ in software that will be more flexible.

Many laptops have built in digital outs, in which case you can just run right into an amp like the Yamaha if you want to use the DSP.

If you have multiple sources, let's say you run your tablet, CD player, DVD, phono, there's no good way to integrate a miniDSP into a receiver.

I'm not much of an 'audiophile' (though am very picky in my own way.) I listen mostly to Spotify 320kbit and reuse the misc old iphones we have about as players. I can leave them hooked up to my various home systems, and run them all via Spotify connect. It's like a poor-mans multi-room system with wireless control. Spotify does have a five band EQ build in, which works for broad tuning (running on local phone). So if I have speakers that need extra bass or whatnot, I just have it set for the system.

I rarely listen loud, so the quality of the speakers dwarfs all other concerns.

 

[Robbo99999]

It really depends on your source.

If you mainly listen to CDs and have a player with a digital out, then the miniDSP could be good.

But it doesn't make sense to me to invest in separate DAW and miniDSP...then what is your source? You've got a round trip on AD-DA on the MiniDSP, which isn't all that great. If your source is a computer, then all you need is a decent USB DAC, and you can run an EQ in software that will be more flexible.

Many laptops have built in digital outs, in which case you can just run right into an amp like the Yamaha if you want to use the DSP.

If you have multiple sources, let's say you run your tablet, CD player, DVD, phono, there's no good way to integrate a miniDSP into a receiver.

I'm not much of an 'audiophile' (though am very picky in my own way.) I listen mostly to Spotify 320kbit and reuse the misc old iphones we have about as players. I can leave them hooked up to my various home systems, and run them all via Spotify connect. It's like a poor-mans multi-room system with wireless control. Spotify does have a five band EQ build in, which works for broad tuning (running on local phone). So if I have speakers that need extra bass or whatnot, I just have it set for the system.

I rarely listen loud, so the quality of the speakers dwarfs all other concerns.

Yeah, for sure there's different ways of doing it, in terms of getting roomEQ done....but to me the Yamaha doesn't seem to be the way to do it.

 

[civi]

Yeah, for sure there's different ways of doing it, in terms of getting roomEQ done....but to me the Yamaha doesn't seem to be the way to do it.

Why not? You can still tweak all correction params - distances, levels and eq.

 

[Robbo99999]

Why not? You can still tweak all correction params - distances, levels and eq.

I think you must have overlooked the poor audio quality measurements when roomEQ mode is activated on the Yamaha, or you're not fussed about those measurements! You have to run the Yamaha in "non-Pure" mode when using roomEQ so that knocks SINAD down to 72dB, you don't care about that poor quality?

 

[civi]

I think you must have overlooked the poor audio quality measurements when roomEQ mode is activated on the Yamaha, or you're not fussed about those measurements! You have to run the Yamaha in "non-Pure" mode when using roomEQ so that knocks SINAD down to 72dB, you don't care about that poor quality?

I'd have to see for myself I guess. I care for quality as long as its audible to me.

 

[Robbo99999]

I'd have to see for myself I guess. I care for quality as long as its audible to me.

Well, yeah, you personally could only say if the decreased quality would be recognisable to you as an individual....however there's been quite a lot of 'work' on this site to investigate what the measurable thresholds of our hearing are in terms of what quality levels are discernible/noticeable, with the idea of trying to put some limits to the numbers we see measured on this site, and the low/poor 72dB SINAD of the Yamaha when doing roomEQ would definitely be noticeable given that work that has been done on this site. Here's the link to the 'threshold work':
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...-thresholds-of-amp-and-dac-measurements.5734/

 

[Todd74]

Does this offer HT bypass? If not does anyone have an inexpensive recommendation with something that’s appreciably better than the premium AVRs and can also be used to power my fronts for HT?

What would be better, skimping on the AVR by buying a $500 7.2 [to only use for a couple yrs] + a stereo or integrated amp for $500-600 to handle the music...... or go with a Marantz 7012, Yamaha 3070/2080, or Denon 3600 for $999 and not have to worry about upgrading the AVR for a while?

Is the music sound quality that much better going from an AVR to this Yamaha that it would necessitate wanting to downgrade the AVR? .... or should I should I just get the quality AVR now and then worry about adding the stereo/integrated to it down the line?

 

[YogiN]

Does this offer HT bypass?

I don't believe that it does.