Yamaha R-N2000A network receiver

[TheBatsEar]

Maybe the room matters, but I do think there is a clear difference between my 803 vs my 1100.

One uses Yamahas room correction, the other does not? You have to disable it, obviously.
Also you have to at least do a blind test. Sighted the device with more bling and higher price usually wins.

 

[Deleted member 48726]

I have heard no difference between an A-S701 (which is what i suspect would be inside the RN1000) and a A-S1200 (which is what i suspect would be inside the RN2000a).
Doesn't mean you can't hear a difference, but there is my opinion. Either there are no audible differences (my suspicion) or they are tiny and don't matter (could be) or they are fundamental and i have wooden ears (don't think so).
On paper the A-S 1200 has more power into difficult loads, a bit more power and a vastly better phono pre-amp.

Then why did i keep the A-S 1200 over the A-S 701? For me it's more than just amplification, i also like a good looking amp with a certain heft and an aura of solidity. It just looks and feels great.
View attachment 289170

If money is no problem, i'd go for the RN2000a. If you want to get rid of the 803D, i never had one to take pics and would be interested if you are in Europe.
If sound quality is your main concern and you don't care for heavy stuff, or money is tight, stick to what you have.

I have an A-S1000 in the storage room and Baby Jesus, it surprised me the very first time I lifted it!
The trafo, heat sinks are of course the usual suspects but I found that the metal chassis is especially overbuilt.
The A-S line is kinda dissapointing for me though as I think it's a bit waste of good engineering to let it have only 100 W of power. They should've made it 200 W akin to the MX-1. -Which by the way weighs the same as the A-S1xxx.

 

[UncleFungus]

Swapped the dark wood side panels from my A-S1100 to the R-N2000A. Perfect fit

 

[UncleFungus]

As for the R-N803, I found it was a good amp but lacked bass depth and strength vs everything else I own (Yamaha A-S1100, Yamaha R-N2000A, NAD C700, Onkyo TX-RX850). This is with all tone controls and room correction switched off.

I've sold the R-N803 as I had too many amps and it was the least useful.

 

[Overseas]

As I said, AS1100 is a different animal than 803d in terms of sound. However, 803 is full of features.

 

[Paspolc]

As for the R-N803, I found it was a good amp but lacked bass depth and strength vs everything else I own (Yamaha A-S1100, Yamaha R-N2000A, NAD C700, Onkyo TX-RX850). This is with all tone controls and room correction switched off.

I've sold the R-N803 as I had too many amps and it was the least useful.

Could you describe in detail the differences you found between the rn803 and the rn2000a, and what speakers you are using, whether standfloor or bookshelf. And before you bought the rn2000a, did you go and listen to it in any hifi stores or did you buy it blindly?
Thanks .

 

[UncleFungus]

Bit of a long story so I'll try to keep it to the point.

I was sick of multichannel HT so I bought a R-N803D to replace my Onkyo TX-RX850. My speakers in this system were Kef Q950 floorstanders. At the same time I decided to stop using the sub so I was expecting less bass.

On my hifi system I was using the A-S1100 with a DAC and I wanted a single box solution. My speakers at the time were Kef R300 bookshelfs, no subwoofer in this system. I knew the R-N2000A was going to be released soon but I figured I'd try the R-N803D in my hifi system, seeing as I already owned it and it was easy enough to swap over. I figure if it was nearly as good as the A-S1100 then why bother spending big money on the R-N2000A? As soon as I plugged it in I noticed the bass was lacking. I turned it off right away and went back to the A-S1100 + DAC.

I bought the R-N2000A blindly, thinking it was basically a A-S1200 with built in DAC so it should at least match my A-S1100. I was not disappointed and if I had to do it all again I would. Also I was very happy to find the R-N2000A supported Tidal Connect so I no longer had to use MusicCast for Tidal.

I saw your earlier post about wanting to be talked out of buying a R-N2000A. Can you audition one?

 

[Overseas]

The Connect thing is very handy, indeed. What about 1100 vs 2000A?

 

[UncleFungus]

The Connect thing is very handy, indeed. What about 1100 vs 2000A?

I struggle to hear any difference. I did read that the A-S1200 is supposed to be noticeably better than the A-S1100 so in theory the 2000A should also be better. Maybe the finer details of SQ are lost on me.

The A-S1100 has a neat trick where it can act as a power amp. It has main-in inputs and a 12v trigger input to turn it on/off. I guess a lot of integrated amps have main-in but not many have a 12v trigger input (most would have 12v out instead). It now runs the speakers in my HT setup, the Onkyo has been reduced to pre-amp duty.

 

[Deleted member 48726]

I've not seen an A-Sxxx that didn't measure completely flat. They should not be discernable in sound. You pay for build quality and components. Not difference in sound.

 

[Overseas]

I know where we are (ASR forum) but, if you say that AS301 and AS3200 sound the same in a fully matched audition, I have to disagree.

 

[Deleted member 48726]

I know where we are (ASR forum) but, if you say that AS301 and AS3200 sound the same in a fully matched audition, I have to disagree.

Okay. Would you like to back that up with experience or measurements?

 

[Overseas]

Okay. Would you like to back that up with experience or measurements?

Ok. I know what you mean. I do not know enough about measurements, though I managed to produce some with Rew and Umik 1. However, though frequency measurements may show the same, I am willing to bet 12 month of pay that a random group of 10 people in a blind test will prove a clear difference between the AS range extreme models. But again, my conviction should be seen as a starting point. I am not hearing angels.

 

[Deleted member 48726]

Ok. I know what you mean. I do not know enough about measurements, though I managed to produce some with Rew and Umik 1. However, though frequency measurements may show the same, I am willing to bet 12 month of pay that a random group of 10 people in a blind test will prove a clear difference between the AS range extreme models. But again, my conviction should be seen as a starting point. I am not hearing angels.

Well, Given the circumstance that you actually need the extra power handling of the (much) larger sibling you may see or hear a difference. It does have a lot more grunt than the 301.

 

[Overseas]

I took the extremes just to be on the safe side of the bet. Actually, off the record, I am guilty of hearing a difference As1100 vs 803, but no bet here

 

[Paspolc]

Bit of a long story so I'll try to keep it to the point.

I was sick of multichannel HT so I bought a R-N803D to replace my Onkyo TX-RX850. My speakers in this system were Kef Q950 floorstanders. At the same time I decided to stop using the sub so I was expecting less bass.

On my hifi system I was using the A-S1100 with a DAC and I wanted a single box solution. My speakers at the time were Kef R300 bookshelfs, no subwoofer in this system. I knew the R-N2000A was going to be released soon but I figured I'd try the R-N803D in my hifi system, seeing as I already owned it and it was easy enough to swap over. I figure if it was nearly as good as the A-S1100 then why bother spending big money on the R-N2000A? As soon as I plugged it in I noticed the bass was lacking. I turned it off right away and went back to the A-S1100 + DAC.

I bought the R-N2000A blindly, thinking it was basically a A-S1200 with built in DAC so it should at least match my A-S1100. I was not disappointed and if I had to do it all again I would. Also I was very happy to find the R-N2000A supported Tidal Connect so I no longer had to use MusicCast for Tidal.

I saw your earlier post about wanting to be talked out of buying a R-N2000A. Can you audition one?

My rn803 does not lack bass, perhaps because I use a subwoofer , albeit of modest quality, and before I upgrade to the rn2000a I will try to listen to it in some hifi stores, which unfortunately, are disappearing everywhere. The problem is that I don't know if then the speakers I use will be adequate, I live in an apartment building and I can't unfortunately, listen to music as I would like, mostly 70's rock. Before I make this expenditure, and it is no small thing, I need to understand if there will be a marked improvement in musical quality output.

If the situation only changes from a construction point of view, I might as well keep the rn803.
I am very undecided about what to do....

 

[Overseas]

@Paspolc, maybe you could try to settle for AS1100 in very good condition, in which case you may test it first at the seller's house. My 1100 purchase is a long story, but I looked it like 6-7 months until the right device appeared, at the right price, in the right location.

 

[Paspolc]

@Paspolc, maybe you could try to settle for AS1100 in very good condition, in which case you may test it first at the seller's house. My 1100 purchase is a long story, but I looked it like 6-7 months until the right device appeared, at the right price, in the right location.

Thanks for the suggestion, but unfortunately the 1100 has no network connection, and I use streaming from Amazon music a lot, I will also wait to see the new rn1000 and rn800, although they seem to me only a slight upgrade. Last but not least, I also hope Amir will do a review of these new Yamaha amplifiers, because I trust his judgment a lot.

 

[ZolaIII]

There are differences and arguably some might hear a difference. AS range under 1200 use switching power supply and cabling isn't great (which really can be fixed cheaply by better placing the cables and can of graphite spray and baking paper to form a shielding which would be quite efficient even for mains oscilator frequency hum) so a little more AC (mains) hum will went in. Among which old A-S700 whose a gem with much better autended analog input lines (old fashion Yamaha input stage vs newer more integrated OPAMP one's and 110 dB vs 100~104 dB) and probably still on pair with top of the line R-N line discussed hire. A-S700 whose/is solo amplifier with analog inputs only (totally old fashion with Rec loop with a source selector and without sub out or anything more) and if we have to cherry pick in what it whose worser than 1100~1200 models it would be separation in mids and highs (really not that import especially in highs) and transformer in the case of later one mentioned. The A-S701 DAC is a bit sub pair while A-S801 has a quiet deacent one and USB DAC input. They are dead quiet when you use digital inputs while Yamaha significantly degraded quality of analog one's (other than phono one which is still quite deacent by typology and according to spec's at least). R-N line on the other hand has a input stage for leveling called Volume Trim (which is 1.5$ part) which when set to - 7 dB improves the bass response pretty much (at least according to my experience) but you lose about 4 dB of output power that way. And I doubt anyone could hear a difference with that done in the 30 W output range between R-N803 and higher tyre A-S range (1000~1100) especially if digital input is used on R-N803. Lower lines of course have cut typology (one power amplifier board instead of two and half of the dumping factor) and off course can output less power with very low distorsion (white amount of maximum amplification doesn't differ much but with a much higher distortion). I am talking there about R-N803 and A-S501 range which keep typology and can output about 60 W clean (compare to 90~100W of higher end one's) and R-N402D and A-S301 with cut typology and clean output of about 40~45W (with a little less SINAD of course). What Yamaha doesn't do (at least didn't up till now) is skimp on quality of secondary components and it's always deacent capacitors and good power stages (which is of course crucial to provide long lasting usability). We will see how new midrange R-N (800~1000) line will behave and how much it would cost. I doubt they will be a step up against R-N803 regarding performance but there is always a benefit of better DAC and USB and HDMI inputs, I hope they won't exaggerate with pricing.

 

[Deleted member 48726]

There are differences and arguably some might hear a difference. AS range under 1200 use switching power supply and cabling isn't great (which really can be fixed cheaply by better placing the cables and can of graphite spray and baking paper to form a shielding which would be quite efficient even for mains oscilator frequency hum) so a little more AC (mains) hum will went in. Among which old A-S700 whose a gem with much better autended analog input lines (old fashion Yamaha input stage vs newer more integrated OPAMP one's and 110 dB vs 100~104 dB) and probably still on pair with top of the line R-N line discussed hire. A-S700 whose/is solo amplifier with analog inputs only (totally old fashion with Rec loop with a source selector and without sub out or anything more) and if we have to cherry pick in what it whose worser than 1100~1200 models it would be separation in mids and highs (really not that import especially in highs) and transformer in the case of later one mentioned. The A-S701 DAC is a bit sub pair while A-S801 has a quiet deacent one and USB DAC input. They are dead quiet when you use digital inputs while Yamaha significantly degraded quality of analog one's (other than phono one which is still quite deacent by typology and according to spec's at least). R-N line on the other hand has a input stage for leveling called Volume Trim (which is 1.5$ part) which when set to - 7 dB improves the bass response pretty much (at least according to my experience) but you lose about 4 dB of output power than way. And I doubt anyone could hear a difference with that done in the 30 W output range between R-N803 and higher tyre A-S range (1000~1100) especially if digital input is used on R-N803. Lower lines of course have cut typology (one power amplifier board instead of two and half of the dumping factor) and off course can output less power with very low distorsion (white amount of maximum amplification doesn't differ much but with a much higher distortion). I am talking there about R-N803 and A-S501 range which keep typology and can output about 60 W clean (compare to 90~100W of higher end one's) and R-N402D and A-S301 with cut typology and clean output of about 40~45W (with a little less SINAD of course). What Yamaha doesn't do (at least didn't up till now) is skimp on quality of secondary components and it's always deacent capacitors and good power stages (which is of course crucial to provide long lasting usability). We will see how new midrange R-N (800~1000) line will behave and how much it would cost. I doubt they will be a step up against R-N803 regarding performance but there is always a benefit of better DAC and USB and HDMI inputs, I hope they won't exaggerate with pricing.

None of Yamaha amps use SMPS but for the standby switch and what are you talking about that cabling isn't great? All of them also measure completely flat.