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Yamaha R-N2000A network receiver

djigibao

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I think you will be better off with a "darker" amplifier (Marantz, NAD...).
Focals have a little "sparkling" sound, but so do Yamaha, so maybe there will be a problem with emphasized high tones.
 
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I think you will be better off with a "darker" amplifier (Marantz, NAD...).
Focals have a little "sparkling" sound, but so do Yamaha, so maybe there will be a problem with emphasized high tones.

What a load of rubbish. Please show me the Yamaha amps that don't have a flat frequency response..
 

djigibao

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I had Yamaha R-N803D with Tannoy XT6F and sometimes there was a pronounced "hiss" sound in some songs.
I didn't have a Focal 906, but a friend did and he said it was a speaker with a lot of high-pitched tones.
Measurements are one thing and personal experiences are something completely different.
 
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O

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I do have the 906s, paired with RN803D, all good, no problem, love them. Probably any of the Yamaha models will sound almost the same.
 
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I had Yamaha R-N803D with Tannoy XT6F and sometimes there was a pronounced "hiss" sound in some songs.
I didn't have a Focal 906, but a friend did and he said it was a speaker with a lot of high-pitched tones.
Measurements are one thing and personal experiences are something completely different.

It can be. In this instance it's imaginary. All Yamahas amps are flat measuring and will provide the exact same sound through the same speakers as any other solid state amp within the power envelope.
 

TheBatsEar

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Noob question. I got a new turntable (Pro-Ject Debut Carbon EVO) and new speakers (Focal Aria 906) and I need an amp.
I have those speakers right now in testing and like them. Luckily they aren't very hard to drive, there is no need for a particularly beefy amplifier.
Just make sure you calculate the expected sound pressure with a SPL calculator:

Here is an example:
1701254879012.png


You should aim for 93dB at least. This is for one speaker, a second speaker will add +3dB, so you can expect 96dB in room. That is plenty loud, too loud to listen to for long times.

I can have the Yamaha R-N600A or the A-S701 for the same price. What are the differences between them? Thanks!
The difference is one is a streaming/analog receiver with less power and the other is a amplifier with builtin DAC with more power.
The Yamaha R-N600A is a bit pricey for my taste. I would rather have a A-S501 and buy a WiiM streamer for 100€ or so and pocket the money that is left.

Edit: OK, I think I understand better now. I should go with the A-S series. But which one exactly? Wouldn't the 701 be a bit overkill for my use? I can have it for about 600 euros. 501 would cost me about 450 euros. 301 about 325 euros. Thanks again!
There is a thread in my signature that shows all kinds of Yamaha devices from the inside, including the A-S701, 501 and 301. They are more or less the same in functionality, looks and build, they are just different in power and power supply.
In my room the 501 would be plenty loud with these speakers and have a bit of headroom too. I think it's the sweet spot.

If you are into saving money, try to get a used R-S700. It has the exact same power supply and power amp section as the A-S701, but can be bought used for less than 250€ or so. I use Hifishark to find used stuff. The R-S700 also has FM radio, but you can ignore that, if you don't want it.
The R-S700 has no builtin DAC like the A-S301 to 701, but it has pre-out/main-in, to loop in a MiniDSP or equalizer in the future.

All of them have variable loudness, which is awesome once you learn about it.

I think you will be better off with a "darker" amplifier (Marantz, NAD...).
Focals have a little "sparkling" sound, but so do Yamaha, so maybe there will be a problem with emphasized high tones.
The Focal frequency response doesn't show any particular sparcle:
index.php


It's not shy in the highs, but if it's too much for your room, you are better off using the treble knob on your amp, PEQ in your source or a MiniDSP to solve matters of taste.
None of the mentioned amplifiers has anything but a smooth and flat frequency response in measurements as long as you operate them below their power rating.
It's a bad idea to tune the "sound" by buying different amps. You are better of buying neutral stuff and then EQ, because maybe you move or install a carpet, then you would have to buy different speakers or amps. EQ will solve many issues.

I personally haven't seen any frequency response deviations in Yamaha, NAD or Marantz anyway, so they will sound the same, within their power rating.

I had Yamaha R-N803D with Tannoy XT6F and sometimes there was a pronounced "hiss" sound in some songs.
I didn't have a Focal 906, but a friend did and he said it was a speaker with a lot of high-pitched tones.
Measurements are one thing and personal experiences are something completely different.
Yes, personal experience is subjective. Also, every room is different. I bet the speakers sound different in my bath room than in my living room.
That is why we have science to calculate the expected inroom response for a specific speaker in a generic room.
Your personal experience doesn't count much, it's just not applicable to the situation @exai finds himself in.
BTW, i have the R-N803D as well, i could unpack it and test it with the Aria 906. I wont, because i'm sure it measures and sounds exactly like the A-S 1200 they are connected to right now. Not testing the Fosi V3 either, it will measure, and thus sound, the same.
 

exai

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Many thanks to everyone who replied. If the ONLY difference between the 301, the 501 and the 701 is power, I'll take the model that's good enough for me, so either the 301 or the 501.

Edit: I used the SPL Calculator with the least powerful of the three models (the A-S301) and obtained 104.3 dB (at a distance of 2 meters) and 100.7 dB (at 3 meters) in the SPL result. So I can't think of a single reason to pick up the A-S701.
 
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TheBatsEar

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the ONLY difference between the 301, the 501 and the 701 is power
There is one more difference, the A-S701 has this button, the 301 and 501 do not:
1701277061559.png

Using the CD input you gain half a dB or so more signal to noise.
I would say it's superfluous and they should have added a pre-out/main-in, record select or maybe a third pair of speaker connections.
 

djigibao

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I have those speakers right now in testing and like them. Luckily they aren't very hard to drive, there is no need for a particularly beefy amplifier.
Just make sure you calculate the expected sound pressure with a SPL calculator:

Here is an example:
View attachment 330286

You should aim for 93dB at least. This is for one speaker, a second speaker will add +3dB, so you can expect 96dB in room. That is plenty loud, too loud to listen to for long times.


The difference is one is a streaming/analog receiver with less power and the other is a amplifier with builtin DAC with more power.
The Yamaha R-N600A is a bit pricey for my taste. I would rather have a A-S501 and buy a WiiM streamer for 100€ or so and pocket the money that is left.


There is a thread in my signature that shows all kinds of Yamaha devices from the inside, including the A-S701, 501 and 301. They are more or less the same in functionality, looks and build, they are just different in power and power supply.
In my room the 501 would be plenty loud with these speakers and have a bit of headroom too. I think it's the sweet spot.

If you are into saving money, try to get a used R-S700. It has the exact same power supply and power amp section as the A-S701, but can be bought used for less than 250€ or so. I use Hifishark to find used stuff. The R-S700 also has FM radio, but you can ignore that, if you don't want it.
The R-S700 has no builtin DAC like the A-S301 to 701, but it has pre-out/main-in, to loop in a MiniDSP or equalizer in the future.

All of them have variable loudness, which is awesome once you learn about it.


The Focal frequency response doesn't show any particular sparcle:
index.php


It's not shy in the highs, but if it's too much for your room, you are better off using the treble knob on your amp, PEQ in your source or a MiniDSP to solve matters of taste.
None of the mentioned amplifiers has anything but a smooth and flat frequency response in measurements as long as you operate them below their power rating.
It's a bad idea to tune the "sound" by buying different amps. You are better of buying neutral stuff and then EQ, because maybe you move or install a carpet, then you would have to buy different speakers or amps. EQ will solve many issues.

I personally haven't seen any frequency response deviations in Yamaha, NAD or Marantz anyway, so they will sound the same, within their power rating.


Yes, personal experience is subjective. Also, every room is different. I bet the speakers sound different in my bath room than in my living room.
That is why we have science to calculate the expected inroom response for a specific speaker in a generic room.
Your personal experience doesn't count much, it's just not applicable to the situation @exai finds himself in.
BTW, i have the R-N803D as well, i could unpack it and test it with the Aria 906. I wont, because i'm sure it measures and sounds exactly like the A-S 1200 they are connected to right now. Not testing the Fosi V3 either, it will measure, and thus sound, the same.

If you look at the tests from some other sites (ie we are looking for a second opinion) you can see that there is an increase in from 10kHz to 20kHz
You can also see that these focals do not have 89db SPL, but closer to 86-87db

Focal%20Aria%20906%20FR_Linearity.png


...one more test...

58524-focal-aria-906-audiocompl-lab1.jpg


...and...

Clipboard01.jpg


Clipboard02.jpg


I don't want to sound smart, I'm just sharing my (and my friend's) experience.
Measurements do not always show the true state.

Anyway, I wish the new Focal user good luck and pleasant listening, whatever he decides.
 

TheBatsEar

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I don't want to sound smart, I'm just sharing my (and my friend's) experience.
Fair enough.

Measurements do not always show the true state.
They do for what you measure. Physics is real. :p

The problem, perhaps, is that we don't measure enough. If you measured in your room, we would know. As it is, there is no knowing.

Ears and what is attached to them is not measurement grade. What you perceive depends on stress, back pain, blood sugar, temperature, amount of sleep and a myriad of other input into your biochemical automaton.
You hear what you see:


And that doesn't even include your, mine and OPs room! Maybe you have a glass picture frame where it matters, maybe i have heavy drapes there.

In any case, to fix the in-room response by exchanging amplifiers doesn't lead to happiness, it leads to wasting money. Competent amplifiers have only the slightest deviations from flat, certainly not enough to be detected in a blind test.
EQ on the other hand is based on facts if you combine it with measurements. And if you are just out for the subjective experience, EQ to taste without measurements is cheaper than exchanging amps.

Anyway, I wish the new Focal user good luck and pleasant listening, whatever he decides.
Agreed. I don't think it really matters, as long as the amp has a SINAD that is somewhere around CD fidelity it's really just about the power you need, the features you want and price.
I replaced the Yamaha A-S1200, certainly a well regarded amplifier, with a Fosi V3 with 48v power supply. A friend of mine did some hidden switching back and forth, and we level matched with a UMIK1. It wasn't really scientific, but needless to say, neither could tell which amp was running.
 
D

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Fair enough.


They do for what you measure. Physics is real. :p

The problem, perhaps, is that we don't measure enough. If you measured in your room, we would know. As it is, there is no knowing.

Ears and what is attached to them is not measurement grade. What you perceive depends on stress, back pain, blood sugar, temperature, amount of sleep and a myriad of other input into your biochemical automaton.
You hear what you see:


And that doesn't even include your, mine and OPs room! Maybe you have a glass picture frame where it matters, maybe i have heavy drapes there.

In any case, to fix the in-room response by exchanging amplifiers doesn't lead to happiness, it leads to wasting money. Competent amplifiers have only the slightest deviations from flat, certainly not enough to be detected in a blind test.
EQ on the other hand is based on facts if you combine it with measurements. And if you are just out for the subjective experience, EQ to taste without measurements is cheaper than exchanging amps.


Agreed. I don't think it really matters, as long as the amp has a SINAD that is somewhere around CD fidelity it's really just about the power you need, the features you want and price.
I replaced the Yamaha A-S1200, certainly a well regarded amplifier, with a Fosi V3 with 48v power supply. A friend of mine did some hidden switching back and forth, and we level matched with a UMIK1. It wasn't really scientific, but needless to say, neither could tell which amp was running.
I agree. And I would like to add that you probably don't even need SINAD at CD quality due to ambient noise.
 

Bernard23

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Great thread, been looking for some help. I have an S-501 with a sub. I'm using Roon and Wiim for room correction based on some very crude measurements using a hand held dB meter and playing sweep bass tests, but not able to set up the phasing of the sub correctly. I know my room has big problems, that's audibly obvious so am attracted to the YPAO feature of these network receivers, the big advantage that I can see is it will help phase align the sub, aswell as mitigate the spikes and troughs. Questions that I've not been able to answer yet:
- how effective is YPAO with a sub and a tricky room?
- what's the sonic equivalent of the S-501 in the network receiver range, but also considering I don't need the built in DAC as I've got a Wiim pro plus.
- happy to buy used so the older range stuff is a more interesting value for money proposition.

From the various threads I've read, the it seems that a 803D would work just as well as the R-N1000A or the 800A, maybe even the model below the 803 could work?
 
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I think you don't get YPAO in models under 803d.
 

Bernard23

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Measurements do not always show the true state.
Assuming you know what to measure, and you understand how well your measurement process performs, then it absolutely does. Your ears, whilst sensitive, are very inconsistent and cannot provide a reliable quantitative assessment.
 
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I used 803d with YPAO RSC in various locations, right now in a very weird TV situation (one speaker in thr middle of the room, one speaker near the window etc) and it helps. For an arrangement on another wall, YPAO was not that relevant. It will work harder the worse the room or location of speakers. Ypao is very easy to use, unlike DIRAC which is more of a operator based system.

I am no specialist but I also used it to integrate a SVS sub, YPAO works very simple but sub only made a tiny difference in my BIG room, people saying I need 2-3 subs...
 

Willied

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There is a pretty substantial firmware update available for the 2000a. I have no issues what it addresses though, because as with pretty much all hifi component makers, no document has been released about it. I have noticed that the standby LED now flashes occasionally and the unit requires a restart to clear it. That’s likely a bug that will have to be addressed next update.

I’m crossing my fingers that gapless playback is in this update, but the sane part of my brain doubts it.
 
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