Yamaha NS-5000

[Ilkless]

Resonance smack in the middle of 2kHz not quite the picture of accuracy...

 

[yyzsb]

I should find out if my trade of my DAC for a NS5000 goes through tomorrow. I am now wondering what to use to drive them. I am thinking Benchmark AHB2 monos | CODA #16 | Purifi | Peachtree GAN1.

I will be using a modded PeachTree GAN1 until I decide on the separates. I will be using the Benchmark LA4 preamp or the Holo Serene. The 2 preamps I have. The modded PeachTree is being used with the Magnepan LRS+ and it sounds great. However, the GAN1 is a PIA to use, especially for family. I also do not have my analog tuner hooked up to the all-digital GAN1. So I need an amp for the NS5000.

My feeling was that the NS5000 is slightly warm, so I am looking at amps that are not too sweet sounding. What amps are you using with the NS5000? I have heard it with the Yamaha M-5000 and I think my CODA #16 is much better (but maybe a touch warm for the NS5000). I will be using the CODA #16 with the LRS+, so I would need a 2nd amp if used with the NS5000.

 

[steve59]

did you give up on the blade 2 meta's?

 

[Abe_W]

I should find out if my trade of my DAC for a NS5000 goes through tomorrow. I am now wondering what to use to drive them. I am thinking Benchmark AHB2 monos | CODA #16 | Purifi | Peachtree GAN1.

I will be using a modded PeachTree GAN1 until I decide on the separates. I will be using the Benchmark LA4 preamp or the Holo Serene. The 2 preamps I have. The modded PeachTree is being used with the Magnepan LRS+ and it sounds great. However, the GAN1 is a PIA to use, especially for family. I also do not have my analog tuner hooked up to the all-digital GAN1. So I need an amp for the NS5000.

My feeling was that the NS5000 is slightly warm, so I am looking at amps that are not too sweet sounding. What amps are you using with the NS5000? I have heard it with the Yamaha M-5000 and I think my CODA #16 is much better (but maybe a touch warm for the NS5000). I will be using the CODA #16 with the LRS+, so I would need a 2nd amp if used with the NS5000.

The NS5000 is a different ball game altogether and a significantly better speaker than the lrs+. I would use the coda 16 with the ns5000 and get something like a high power emotiva xpa dr2 for the lrs+. I would tailor the upstream electronics, the preamp, dac, etc with some tone controls or peq for whatever level of warm or cool suits your tastes (without heavy-handing it).

 

[yyzsb]

The NS5000 is a different ball game altogether and a significantly better speaker than the lrs+. I would use the coda 16 with the ns5000 and get something like a high power emotiva xpa dr2 for the lrs+. I would tailor the upstream electronics, the preamp, dac, etc with some tone controls or peq for whatever level of warm or cool suits your tastes (without heavy-handing it).

I was thinking of a preamp with some tone, such as the Rotel Mitch P5. I have heard the integrated at that same model lineup. It was decent. However, after some experience with various preamps (Topping p90, CODA 07x, Schiit Feya+), I went back to the Benchmark LA4. I recently ordered the Holo Serene because it has an extra source input over the LA4. It also measures a bit better than the LA4. I will be using the Serene and LA4 long term on both systems.

I will look into the emotiva xpa dr2 for the LRS+. The LRS+ may not measure well but it sounds great in my small room.

You are correct that the CODA #16 will drive the NS5000 really nicely. Not sure if it matches tonally with the NS5000, but I of course can test that at home.

 

[yyzsb]

did you give up on the blade 2 meta's?

I decided that it was too dangerous to have with small kids around. For example, next Saturday we are having a kid's birthday in my home and if the Blade was around, I would be worried about the drivers being poked or being toppled over. The NS5000 has the grills and is not going to get knocked over.

 

[steve59]

I got my blades for less than a pair of ns5000's and if it was the other way around and those came up for less than 1/2 retail 10 minutes from my house I wouldn't have hesitated in trying them. For me and my income the used market determines what gets scratched off my list. Now that I've paired the Blades with the Mc611's I found what I'm looking for. I hope you have the same results with the Ns5k's.

 

[yyzsb]

Update:

Yesterday I spent 4 hours in a dealers listening room auditioning the NS-5000's.

Setup was my Benchmark DAC2-HGC with two AHB2's running in mono (one for each speaker).

Still sifting through the subjective experience, lots of things to reflect on, but one thing is clear - they play very clean and very loud (100-105 dB no problem).

The treble is bright, I would not toe them in at all as the on-axis response measures and sounds like it goes up above 15kHz (after changing them to flat they sounded much better FWIW). The big woofer is approaching an authentic kick drum, very realistic response once the volume was dialed up a little. Didn't hear anything missing in the middle (Yamaha has been criticised for undersized mid range drivers before).

Separation, detail, tonality, space - all exceptional to my subjective ears. I would be very interested to see these go up against anything from the same price point in a true ABX blind test. An easy listening experience, not fatiguing or tiring, instead they have a very natural sound. Instruments sound like instruments. But in AUD I would place them somewhere between 10k and 15k value wise.

The detail in finish, materials, execution is true spartan beauty. Real brushed aluminium (Revel plastic surrounds = yuck), deep lustre gloss piano black cabinets. And they are made to order, so if I paid a deposit tomorrow, the first chance of seeing a pair would be late January 2021.

I have purchased a pair of F208's to enjoy in the meantime, will be interesting to compare the two if I decide I can afford the Yamaha's. What the Revel's have in reputation the Yamaha's delivered in the actual experience - let's see if the Revel's sound as good as everyone says they do - they definitely measure very well.

@Coach_Kaarlo

I have the NS5000 being delivered this week and now looking for an amp. I have a PeachTree GAN1 (modded) to hold me for a while. The modded GAN1 is really good but suffers in the user experience due to being all-digital single source input and no volume control (hard for family to use). The plan is to take my Benchmark LA4 preamp and my Benchmark DAC3B and use with the NS5000. I used to have the AHB2's and loved them except for the bass on some speakers. They are not supper powerful, like my CODA #16. When you heard the AHB2 with the NS5000 did you find that the bass was all there? Was this setup too bright?

There is a KRELL Duo XD amp that I like a lot but I am wondering if it is too smooth and warm on the NS5000. When I demoed the NS5000 I thought it was a slightly warm sounding speaker with the Yamaha 5000 series gear. That is why I was thinking an all-Benchmark stack could be a nice sonic match. I will likely do a 30-day home trial on the AHB2 monos but I would like to hear some feedback before I go through with the AHB2's. Adding the KRELL DUO XD to the LA4 and DAC3B is different sound from the same 2 with the AHB2.

 

[dualazmak]

Just for your possible interests and reference,,,

If you would like, you may implement PC (or MAC) DSP-based quasi or (pseudo) multichannel multi-SP-driver system even using single stereo DAC plus single amplifier for passive (LCR-network in it) 3-way SP like NS-5000. For example, as shown in this diagram;

In this kind of DSP setup, you may digitally and flexibly control the relative gains between the Fq zones (i.e. rerative gains between SP drivers) by DSP software in your upstream PC/MAC, even with single-DAC single-amplifier system. You may even also achieve quasi- or semi- or pseudo- "time alignment" between the SP drivers.

Edit:
Actual real setup example? Yes, you may find it here on my project thread; with AHB2 or Accuphase E-460 amplifier.

 

[dualazmak]

That is why I was thinking an all-Benchmark stack could be a nice sonic match. I will likely do a 30-day home trial on the AHB2 monos but I would like to hear some feedback before I go through with the AHB2's.

I am sorry writing this post prior to @Coach_Kaarlo would respond to you.

Just for your reference, you would please find my experiences and subjective impressions on AHB2 with Yamaha NS-1000 on my project thread;

- Benchmark AHB2 (class-A[H]B)_Part-1_Comparison with ACCUPHASE E-460 in Single-Amplifier + LC-Network full range reference sound system: #253
- Benchmark AHB2 (class-A[H]B)_Part-2_Incorporation in multichannel multi-amplifier system and Listening sessions: #258, #265
- Rotel RB-1582 MkII (class-AB)_Part-1_Comparison with Accuphase E-460 and Benchmark AHB2 in single-Amplifier + LC-network full range reference sound system: #263
- Rotel RB-1582 MkII (class-AB)_Part-2_Incorporation in multichannel multi-amplifier system and listening Sessions: #264, #265

 

[steve59]

All I can say is test as many amps as possible. I was amazed when I was shopping amps in the late 90's early 2000's how everything in the $1-$2k range sounded identical, Nak was supposed to have a great rep, Adcom, NAD, B&K all sounded like they rolled off the same assembly line. You sound well aware that amp speaker interaction affects the final sound so the Yamaha components will probably sound great and they look the business. I'll be following this thread with interest.

 

[dualazmak]

All I can say is test as many amps as possible. I was amazed when I was shopping amps in the late 90's early 2000's how everything in the $1-$2k range sounded identical, Nak was supposed to have a great rep, Adcom, NAD, B&K all sounded like they rolled off the same assembly line. You sound well aware that amp speaker interaction affects the final sound so the Yamaha components will probably sound great and they look the business. I'll be following this thread with interest.

Essentially I agree with you!

I too have gone through long and intensive amplifier exploration journey in my multi-channel multi-amplifier active setup as summarized here on my project thread.

 

[Coach_Kaarlo]

@Coach_Kaarlo

I have the NS5000 being delivered this week and now looking for an amp. I have a PeachTree GAN1 (modded) to hold me for a while. The modded GAN1 is really good but suffers in the user experience due to being all-digital single source input and no volume control (hard for family to use). The plan is to take my Benchmark LA4 preamp and my Benchmark DAC3B and use with the NS5000. I used to have the AHB2's and loved them except for the bass on some speakers. They are not supper powerful, like my CODA #16. When you heard the AHB2 with the NS5000 did you find that the bass was all there? Was this setup too bright?

There is a KRELL Duo XD amp that I like a lot but I am wondering if it is too smooth and warm on the NS5000. When I demoed the NS5000 I thought it was a slightly warm sounding speaker with the Yamaha 5000 series gear. That is why I was thinking an all-Benchmark stack could be a nice sonic match. I will likely do a 30-day home trial on the AHB2 monos but I would like to hear some feedback before I go through with the AHB2's. Adding the KRELL DUO XD to the LA4 and DAC3B is different sound from the same 2 with the AHB2.

Hi there.

I think there were some recordings from a listening session I had shared previously - might be of interest. I used my 2 x AHB2 amps in mono, with my Benchmark DAC.

I ended removing the toe in of the speakers, and having them them facing straight out, softened the high’s somewhat.

At home I use DIRAC so would simply EQ and set the toe in or out for best imaging.


The combination of AHB2’s and NS5000’s seems to be [in my opinion] the best of both worlds - true reference style linearity. Reproduction rather than colouration. Just detailed neutral sound either highlighting the recording or showing it’s short comings. The NS2000’s were the best speaker I have heard yet. I expect the NS5000’s will be as good if not superior.

At some point I intent to swap my F208’s for a pair of the NS5000’s, and will probably add some subs only if the room modes interfere with the bass, otherwise the NS5000’s went plenty deep enough.

 

[dualazmak]

Hi there.

I think there were some recordings from a listening session I had shared previously - might be of interest. I used my 2 x AHB2 amps in mono, with my Benchmark DAC.

I ended removing the toe in of the speakers, and having them them facing straight out, softened the high’s somewhat.

At home I use DIRAC so would simply EQ and set the toe in or out for best imaging.


The combination of AHB2’s and NS5000’s seems to be [in my opinion] the best of both worlds - true reference style linearity. Reproduction rather than colouration. Just detailed neutral sound either highlighting the recording or showing it’s short comings. The NS2000’s were the best speaker I have heard yet. I expect the NS5000’s will be as good if not superior.

At some point I intent to swap my F208’s for a pair of the NS5000’s, and will probably add some subs only if the room modes interfere with the bass, otherwise the NS5000’s went plenty deep enough.

And,,, how about make NS-5000 fully active by eliminating/bypassing all the CL(R)-network to drive each of the SP units with dedicated amplifiers, hope fully using multiple AHB2? Of course we need protection capacitors for midrange and tweeter, though.

In this way, we would be able to use PC-DSP for full XO/EQ/delay (time alignment) tuning all over the SP drivers, and the transient behavior of woofers, rise-up and fade-out, would be considerably improved, I assume, of course depending on the performances of the dedicated amplifier(s) for woofers.

 

[yyzsb]

And,,, how about make NS-5000 fully active by eliminating/bypassing all the CL(R)-network to drive each of the SP units with dedicated amplifiers, hope fully using multiple AHB2? Of course we need protection capacitors for midrange and tweeter, though.

In this way, we would be able to use PC-DSP for full XO/EQ/delay (time alignment) tuning all over the SP drivers, and the transient behavior of woofers, rise-up and fade-out, would be considerably improved, I assume, of course depending on the performances of the dedicated amplifier(s) for woofers.

Later tonight I will lug my 100 lb CODA #16 and my LA4 and DAC3B downstairs to the NS5000. I think it will be amazing though not where I want to use the #16.

It is great to hear that the AHB2 was so good with the NS5000. I have owned the amp over the past decade about 5x. I think I made money on the amp overall, though that was not my goal. I am considering requesting, from Rory at Benchmark, a 30-day trial with the monos. My only hesitation is that the monos will not be good with my Magnepan LRS+. Ideally the 2 amps I will own will work with both speakers (and RAAL SR1a + CA-1a phones).

 

[St1n]

Hey @dualazmak, your knowledge on Yamaha speakers is impressive!!

I was wondering if you had any info on the Yamaha NS-1200? I have a pair from Japan and they sound wonderful! Very impressive build quality; spruce woofer cones and cotton domes. This is the only info I could find: Audio Database

It seems most discussion of these speakers are on Japanese forums, as Yamaha didn’t produce many units and most were sold in Japan.

Sorry to pollute this thread on the NS-5000/NS-1000M, but wanted to see if you knew anything about their sibling here!

 

[restorer-john]

Those "classic" series speakers came out in and around Yamaha's centennial celebrations (100 years- 1987). A series including some gorgeous little 2 ways was made, the Centennial series components and the fabulous NS-10000X speakers.

I've got a brochure somewhere in my files.

 

[St1n]

Those "classic" series speakers came out in and around Yamaha's centennial celebrations (100 years- 1987). A series including some gorgeous little 2 ways was made, the Centennial series components and the fabulous NS-10000X speakers.

Thank you!
So, if nothing else, at least these “classics” were designed during a good era in Yamaha’s HiFi tenure, yeah?

They’re honestly very impressive, which makes their rarity a bit of a mystery to me. All I can assume is that they released these at a time when consumers were wanting to look more into the future vs the classic, vintage aesthetic.

I've got a brochure somewhere in my files.

Amazing, I’d love to see that if you ever come across it again!

 

[dualazmak]

I was wondering if you had any info on the Yamaha NS-1200?

I am sorry that I have little knowledge on YAMAHA NS-1200 and I never listened to NS-1200; it looks @restorer-john knows it much better than I.

I could just find this very brief Audio Heritage web page; I do hope your web browser would properly translate it into English.