Yamaha CD-S2000 Review (CD/SACD Player)

[Scytales]

Some early SACDs contained nothing but multichannel tracks (I have an E. Power Biggs organ disc and a recorded-in-the-round Ravel disc with Boulez/NY). But most MCh SACDs also include stereo SACD and stereo CD-quality layers, as well as the MCh layer. A player like this Yamaha would not access the MCh layer. You can see the button on the front to choose the SACD or the Redbook layer.

The inclusion of a 2 channels stereo content on every released Super Audio CD has been made mandatory by the "Super Audio CD System Description" (the so-called "Scarlet Book"), Part 2: Audio Specification, revision 2.0 from March 2004 onward.

Prior revisions of the Scarlet Book didn't mandate the presence of a specific 2 channels stereo content.

So, it was possible to release SA-CD discs having only a multichannel program from 1999 (date of release of the format) to march 2004 without infringement of the SA-CD normative specifications in that time window.

Hope this help.

 

[DSJR]

Great review. I enjoy learning about the older state of the art equipment. Thanks

OLDER equipment indeed!

Older is pre 1988 in my book as regards CD players and 1978 or so in terms of other solid state audio electronics


Anyway - a pal of mine has the '1000' version and again, the beautiful trad-Yamaha styling, solid 'pride in ownership' build and slick loading drawer really sets it apart I felt. No idea how differently it performs to the '2000,' but on CD playback, the sonics were neutral and 'open' to recording/production differences.

Thanks to @NTTY for the review and hope this machine gives decades more reliable use.

 

[Scytales]

Excellent test work once again. Although this device does not reach the top in terms of measurements, it offers sufficient performance for total audible transparency.
I assume it is a stereo-only SACD player. Therefore, what does it do with multichannel SACDs? Is there a downmix from 5 to 2 channels, or simply an extraction of the 2 main channels (which would make it useless as an SACD player in most cases)? Can this be tested?

As I have just written above, every multichannel SA-CDs printed from March 2004 have to have also a stereo 2.0 program in the relevant area of the high definition layer of the disc, although there have been a few rare exceptions (presumably disc projects that had originated before the latest revision of the Scarlet book and that have been proceeded as is). Before 2004, the vast majority of multichannel SA-CDs already had a 2.0 program content, save for a few exceptions.

The capability to read the SA-CD layer of an SA-CD disc requires a special processor to demodulate the various hardware-implemented anti-copy protections of this type of disc, unpack DST (lossless compression format for DSD) if required and generate the DSD bitstreams, which are separated for each channel and not interlaced in a single transmission pipeline as is the case with CD data. There are two kinds of SA-CD decoding processors: 2.0 stereo only (Sony CXD2750 and CXD2751 and Philips Furore) and multichannel decoding processors (Sony CXD2752, CXD2753, CXD2754, CXD9927 and CXD90048, Philips SAA7893 Furore 2, Zoran ZR36888 and MediaTek MT1389EE and many newer System on Chip [SoC] of the latter maker).

Years ago, for a stereo only player to be able to read the multichannel area of an SA-CD disc and do a downmix would have required that it uses a multichannel decoding processor. I know for sure only one such player: the first version of the T+A D10.

Now that only multichannel SoCs have been made for many years, it is perfectly feasible that a stereo only SA-CD player features a down-mixing capability, provided the designer have software implemented it. The only way to find out is to dig in the user manual for any player.

 

[Vintage02]

Hello Florent,

Nice review as you know, and for some time already, we have been suggesting it. Moreover, the chosen equipment is often high-end, which does not take away from any of that.

I just have a question regarding the 3DC measurement which, since the Oppo, is either perfect or nearly perfect. Certainly, the devices are excellent, but we are still talking about a measurement of an analog output.
Could your new Cosmos combo have something to do with it?
In the past, you did 3DC measurements with the Motu, but unless I'm mistaken, it wasn't as close to what we can measure on the digital output. I’m wondering about these results.

 

[diddley]

Thanks Flo @NTTY for another great review, seems that you got only top of the bill dut's lately.

 

[macauley86]

Over a decade ago, I had the CD-S1000 with the A-S1000 amplifier connected to Polk Audio LSi7 (and LSi15). Best sound I'd ever heard. I remember my wife walking into the room while Adele's CD 21 was playing, and she stopped in her tracks and noted how good it sounded. Then, I sold all the pieces and have been kicking myself ever since.

 

[NTTY]

Would love one of those Yamaha SACD players , just to put on the rack with my AS2200 but still to expensive to have the thing only collect dust.

That’s a beautiful integrated amplifier

Hello, I see you have added the deemphasis parameter for this player.

Is this first time you tested a cd player for this criteria or was this missing from the previous players you had tested ?

I introduced it recently indeed, with proper measurements. I was previously using an old release of a CDA with pre-emphasis on it, and using my ears I’ll update few players that I still have with results.

 

[NTTY]

Hello Florent,

Nice review as you know, and for some time already, we have been suggesting it. Moreover, the chosen equipment is often high-end, which does not take away from any of that.

I just have a question regarding the 3DC measurement which, since the Oppo, is either perfect or nearly perfect. Certainly, the devices are excellent, but we are still talking about a measurement of an analog output.
Could your new Cosmos combo have something to do with it?
In the past, you did 3DC measurements with the Motu, but unless I'm mistaken, it wasn't as close to what we can measure on the digital output. I’m wondering about these results.

Indeed, it’s due to the incredibly low level of noise in the Cosmos (grade 0). And I also use the Cosmos scaler which will increase the gain for that test, and that will push a little lower the residual noise of the Cosmos ADC. This is why I can perform such clean measurements.
I could test the same from the Motu, to check the difference. Pushing the input gain could potentially give good results, or feeding it with the scaler. I’ll give it a try.

 

[NTTY]

As I have just written above, every multichannel SA-CDs printed from March 2004 have to have also a stereo 2.0 program in the relevant area of the high definition layer of the disc, although there have been a few rare exceptions (presumably disc projects that had originated before the latest revision of the Scarlet book and that have been proceeded as is). Before 2004, the vast majority of multichannel SA-CDs already had a 2.0 program content, save for a few exceptions.

Interesting and good to know, thanks!

The capability to read the SA-CD layer of an SA-CD disc requires a special processor to demodulate the various hardware-implemented anti-copy protections of this type of disc, unpack DST (lossless compression format for DSD) if required and generate the DSD bitstreams, which are separated for each channel and not interlaced in a single transmission pipeline as is the case with CD data. There are two kinds of SA-CD decoding processors: 2.0 stereo only (Sony CXD2750 and CXD2751 and Philips Furore) and multichannel decoding processors (Sony CXD2752, CXD2753, CXD2754, CXD9927 and CXD90048, Philips SAA7893 Furore 2, Zoran ZR36888 and MediaTek MT1389EE and many newer System on Chip [SoC] of the latter maker).

Years ago, for a stereo only player to be able to read the multichannel area of an SA-CD disc and do a downmix would have required that it uses a multichannel decoding processor. I know for sure only one such player: the first version of the T+A D10.

And was that downmix done in DSD or it there was a conversion to PCM?

 

[testp]

i remember these, Yamaha built these (2/3000) for their 125th Anniversary, they certainly looked overbuilt but nice to look at. fully-balanced looked good to me, some but not that many were doing it that time.

 

[gsp1971]

Thanks @NTTY for another very interesting review.

For the record, I have a soft spot for Yamaha gear as well, but the cynical truth is that for similar money one could get an Oppo and enjoy equal (if not better) performance out of CD / SACDs with the added bonus of DVD & Blu-Ray, plus digital input.

Thanks a lot, great work.

 

[Scytales]

Interesting and good to know, thanks!

And was that downmix done in DSD or it there was a conversion to PCM?

No idea about MediaTek and Zoran chipset.

As far as Sony and Philips are concerned, I suppose that they have re-used the processing blocks they had respectively designed as early as 1997 (Sony) and 2000 (Philips) to perform cross-fade at editing points on DSD streams as I have explained in message #104 in another of your review. The only available datasheet of one of those SA-CD decoder chips is from Philips. It shows an optional DSD to PCM converter block available to the system designer, but this optional format converter is clearly situated after all the on-chip processing blocks. That reinforces my belief that Sony and Philips chips performed channel mixing at DSD sample rate without decimation to low-sample rate PCM. Of course, it is my understanding that during the mixing process, DSD streams necessarily becomes multi-bit because gain adjustment have to be performed on them and they have to be re-modulated back to 1 bit further down the signal path.

 

[NTTY]

Very interesting, thanks

 

[Guerilla]

A CD player without numerical buttons is a no go.

 

[thewas]

A CD player without numerical buttons is a no go.

It's remote control has them where it really matters, we don't want to stand up like the turntable guys, do we?

 

[Snoopy]

That’s a beautiful integrated amplifier

Absolutely. I think all of the better Yamaha amplifiers and receivers since the 70s have that timeless design that is vintage but yet still „modern“.

Also if one doesn’t care much for the most modern dac etc these Yamaha SACD players are still incredible good if Yamaha where to release a SACD player like the Marantz 30n with digital inputs and streaming, I would buy it in a heartbeat.

 

[perdido34]

A CD player without numerical buttons is a no go.

I've had 5 or 6 CD/universal players since they first came on the market. None had numerical buttons on the box, only on the remote.

 

[Guerilla]

It's remote control has them where it really matters, we don't want to stand up like the turntable guys, do we?

I've had 5 or 6 CD/universal players since they first came on the market. None had numerical buttons on the box, only on the remote.

Then you have to find and fiddle with the remote instead of just putting on the track you want to hear or program more songs in the order you want to hear them. It's like backwards evolution that they abandoned it to save a few pennies even on expensive players. Sucks.

 

[Doodski]

Then you have to find and fiddle with the remote instead of just putting on the track you want to hear or program more songs in the order you want to hear them. It's like backwards evolution that they abandoned it to save a few pennies even on expensive players. Sucks.

When I was selling home audio gear the first about 2-3 models in the line-up usually had no direct access numerical keys on the front of the CD player. Then the next model up did and that was generally/usually ~$100 more for those direct access numerical buttons on the front of the CD player. Most people could not justify that extra ~$100 for the direct access buttons. I was always encouraging the most money possible spent on the speakers and so if the customers where shopping for a complete stereo package I generally did not sell on the extra $100 for direct access buttons and got them to put that extra money in the speakers where it could make a easily demonstrable difference in the sound quality. Some buyers did want direct access. For me when I bought CD players for myself as a home audio sales guy and especially when I became a technician I always bought direct access CD players.

 

[Scytales]

Then you have to find and fiddle with the remote instead of just putting on the track you want to hear or program more songs in the order you want to hear them. It's like backwards evolution that they abandoned it to save a few pennies even on expensive players. Sucks.

From the end of the 1990s, Sony put an alternative to a front panel numerical keypad to access tracks : what it calls the "AMS" rotary button. You rotate the button clock-wise or counter-clock wise to sequentially navigate through the CD (or SA-CD) tracks and once you get the track you want, you push the button to launch the player.

This interface is fast and easy to use. At least, it is handy to navigate through NTTY's test CD tracks, especially when CD texts describing the track contents have been programmed and are being showed on the display of the player.