Yamaha A-S701 Stereo Amplifier Review

[mike70]

Evidence doesn't show an audible real difference between cd quality and "hires" quality. The difference generally is the mastering / recording.

So, paying for "hires" streamers / services can be worthless, at least in the audio quality facet. Features, looks ... can be part of the decision also, of course, but not with the "better sound" tag.

 

[Iainohyeah]

what's happening in ASR?
we try all the time in all topics to always check the mental bias and the normal real source of differences (gain / impedance/ whatever) ... and in the last times we're more like stereophile.
What we're doing wrong?

You cannot get the real difference on electronics with a sighted test and without any check on technical parameters. Done ... please.

Surely this is as dangerous an attitude as the 'stereophile' nonsense though. We all experience sensory input differently and some prefer the sound of one bit of kit over another, even if they measure the same. 'Blind' Headphone and speaker tests prove this all the time. Mental bias can come from seeing good measurements, many of which are actually inaudible.
You can be in the middle. It's allowed (encouraged, even.) Read the measurements and give it a listen. You might be surprised.

 

[voodooless]

We all experience sensory input differently and some prefer the sound of one bit of kit over another, even if they measure the same. 'Blind' Headphone and speaker tests prove this all the time.

What speakers or headphones measure the same?

 

[Iainohyeah]

What speakers or headphones measure the same?

Amir's charts are quite easily referenced.

 

[voodooless]

Amir's charts are quite easily referenced.

So, then it should be easy to come up with one single example…

 

[Iainohyeah]

So, then it should be easy to come up with one single example…

Ok it would be helpful if you just said where you're going with this rather than have a drawn out interaction but on page one here the Noise and Distortion chart lists a few amps that measure at 96. Do you want me to list them? Or are you going to say that they measure differently in other aspects so it's irrelevant?
Either way I think you know the point I was making in a mildly irreverent manner but let's go.........

 

[voodooless]

Ok it would be helpful if you just said where you're going with this rather than have a drawn out interaction but on page one here the Noise and Distortion chart lists a few amps that measure at 96.

Amps? You were talking about speakers and headphones, that’s why I asked specifically for those…

 

[Iainohyeah]

I was talking about kit in general then I referenced speakers and headphones because I recently saw a 'blind' headphone test with totally unexpected results.
I did miss that you specifically asked about those. Apologies. I was possibly more focussed on your agenda. What measurement do you want me to find that lists two speakers or headphones side by side?

 

[Iainohyeah]

Let me put this another way. I have a set of Dynaudio bookshelf speakers. They cost twice as much as my old Triangle Boreas but I prefer my Triangles for everyday use, even though they didn't measure very well and were cheap. They are brilliant all-rounders and sound amazing in my listening space. Sometimes the Dynaudios surprise me with something they do really well so I keep them too.
I think many people who are measurement biased wouldn't consider the cheaper speaker and would never go and audition them. That's the point I was making- the importance of an open mind.

 

[voodooless]

The problem is referencing things that never measure the same, and conflating them with things that can be audible transparent, like almost all electronics. There are no unexpected results when properly (double) blind testing competently designed electronics. The results are always highly predictable.

 

[voodooless]

I think many people who are measurement biased wouldn't consider the cheaper speaker and would never go and audition them

I think the opposite it true. If the measurements based approach has thought us one thing, it’s that good gear doesn’t have to cost an arm and a leg.

 

[Iainohyeah]

Then we have differing opinions. Fair enough.

 

[Iainohyeah]

I think the opposite it true. If the measurements based approach has thought us one thing, it’s that good gear doesn’t have to cost an arm and a leg.

Good gear doesn't have to cost a lot but you pay for more than the measured performance. You have to factor in build quality, functionality, durability and crucially, pride in ownership.
My £1600 power amp sounds better than my Aiyima A07 max at all but the lowest of volumes. It looks great and has lots of functionality but it doesn't actually measure all that well. The Aiyima does.
I take zero pride in owning my A07.

 

[dualazmak]

Good gear doesn't have to cost a lot but you pay for more than the measured performance. You have to factor in build quality, functionality, durability and crucially, pride in ownership.
My £1600 power amp sounds better than my Aiyima A07 max at all but the lowest of volumes. It looks great and has lots of functionality but it doesn't actually measure all that well. The Aiyima does.
I take zero pride in owning my A07.

I essentially agree with you, as I recently wrote here almost the same...

 

[antcollinet]

We all experience sensory input differently

But we are also all limited to the capability of the human auditory system. When the measurements tell us any differences are too small to be detected by our ears, we don't need to listen to know that they sound the same.

If we do listen - then we need to listen controlled and blind so that our perceptive biases don't fool us that we are hearing differences even when there are none to be heard.

 

[Ropeburn]

Let me put this another way. I have a set of Dynaudio bookshelf speakers. They cost twice as much as my old Triangle Boreas but I prefer my Triangles for everyday use, even though they didn't measure very well and were cheap. They are brilliant all-rounders and sound amazing in my listening space. Sometimes the Dynaudios surprise me with something they do really well so I keep them too.
I think many people who are measurement biased wouldn't consider the cheaper speaker and would never go and audition them. That's the point I was making- the importance of an open mind.

Allow me to tell a little story about bias.

I've used my old Canton RC-K (large 8" bookshelves) for about 20 years, multi-purpose for music, movies/TV, and monitoring. You can find old posts of mine here describing them as "fairly neutral and balanced". That was my long term impression, relative to other speakers too that I've heard over the years. Never did any measurements, nor had any from external, professional sources.

Oh boy. Turns out, that was some big bullshit and totally wrong. My new speakers are unusually, remarkably flat, every independent measurement says that. That's why I chose them, even bought blindly/deafly, put them in the room et voilà, great sound. Switching back and forth to the old Canton reveals them to be severely middy and unbalanced. Striking difference.

How could I have been so wrong? Easily explained: these long years of use in different rooms makes your auditory center adapt to the sound character very thoroughly. It becomes a fixed mental reference, and all sonic judgement is made relative to that. It's just how our brains work: we're way better at judging relative differences than absolutes. It also just so happens that a pronounced midrange is useful for producing and mixing, because it's a kind of sonic magnifying glass in the most important range of music. They worked fine for that precisely because they were factually bad and middy, similar to old infamous Yamaha studio monitors!

I never knew they were until now. Measurements could've told me. Believe me, I found it highly amusing and laughed a lot about myself. A nice reminder that I'm just a human and as prone to bias and fallacies as anyone. Facts and measurements don't lie, my brain does.

 

[mike70]

We're discussing science results?
OK, we can open a thread about flat earth... we have the right to like / believe as we wish. Scientific results? ... sorry... but no. No at all.

An Aiyima sounds as good as any Accuphase in their "good" operative range and the Aiyima costs 40x less. That's science.

If you want the Accuphase as pride, components quality (even you can change your Aiyima 20 times and you still in the half price tag) ... it's OK, but, let the things clear.

 

[Zek]

An Aiyima sounds as good as any Accuphase in their "good" operative range and the Aiyima costs 40x less. That's science.

Where's the science?
If something costs 40x more, is that scientific evidence?

 

[mike70]

Where's the science?
If something costs 40x more, is that scientific evidence?

The science is in the measurements of Aiyima (transparent to the signal in certain conditions of power, impedance, etc). Inside that conditions, the Aiyima will be indistinguishable from an Accuphase, as blind tests and psicho acoustics shows.
The extremely higher price tag isn't science, is a fact. You can throw the Aiyima to the trash can and buy a brand new one many (many) times with the price of the Accuphase.

More clear now?

 

[dualazmak]

The extremely higher price tag isn't science, is a fact. You can throw the Aiyima to the trash can and buy a brand new one many (many) times with the price of the Accuphase.

Of course, it is up to yourself and you have complete freedom to go your own way, I believe.

At least for me myself, however, my way (and policy) are somewhat different from yours, as I recently wrote here.

This is one of the many reasons for my careful selection and utilization of YAMAHA A-S3000, ACCUPHSE E-460, SONY TA-A1ES and YAMAHA A-301 as well as YAMAHA YST-SW1000 in my PC-DSP-based multichannel multi-SP-driver multi-amplifier fully active audio setup (ref. posts #931 and #1,009 on my project thread). Yes, ACCUPHASE E-460 was comparably rather expensive, but other three amplifiers were not so expensive when I have purchased brand new ones, in Japan.

If you would be interested, you can see the outside and inside photos of these four (4) amplifiers here in my post #38.