XSA Labs Vanguard Speaker Review

[Toni Mas]

And this alone is enough to make it a bad speaker. At least in my book.

Yes but there is something in Amir s loudspeaker measurements that do not convince me at all. And this is not the first time.
After all a designer is perfectly allowed to choose the design axis freely and it does no have to be necessarily 0°
And further measurements should be made taking this into account, taking as reference the axis giving the flattest and smoothest response as presumably the design axis.

 

[moonlight rainbow dream]

https://imgur.com/a/Pioc4

Jeff Bagby's "Continuum" ls3/5 clone design, built by a DIYer using literal Ikea cutting boards, funnily enough.

 

[Grotti]

Yes but there is something in Amir s loudspeaker measurements that do not convince me at all. And this is not the first time.
After all a designer is perfectly allowed to choose the design axis freely and it does no have to be necessarily 0°
And further measurements should be made taking this into account, taking as reference the axis giving the flattest and smoothest response as presumably the design axis.

There is no claim on the site of xsa audio, that this speaker has to be used off axis to deliver a smooth response. In fact this would not solve the other problems shown in Amirs measurements (except for listening strictly nearfield in a treated room and filling up the high frequency by PEQ).

This is a flawed speaker by design and doesn't follow the "Ethos" on the manufacturers Homepage:

"Our Ethos

Simply put, at XSA-Labs, we offer unique, innovative, and leading edge products for the very best in SOUND QUALITY and value using state of the art design and manufacturing technologies."

 

[Chris M]

I'm really curious what will happen in the DIYAudio forum about my reference to the measurements...

 

[Toni Mas]

There is no claim on the site of xsa audio, that this speaker has to be used off axis to deliver a smooth response.

This is true ... The only excuse they find to the bumped on axis response is that the Dayton's woofers production is not consistent enough and 5db variations of the FR can be found...

Nevertheless cabinet diffraction can produce such bump in the midrange if taken strictly on axis.

 

[Toni Mas]

FYI, they are not @amirm's measurement. Do please read the chart title.

Show me where it says the designer's chosen axis is not 0 degrees, please. Here is how their speakers are used according to them.

XSA Labs

Manufacturer of High fidelity audio speakers amplifiers and accessories.

www.xsa-labs.com

Anyway these are Amir measurements with all averages based on 0° axis response.

Btw i was trying to download the individual responses from the Zip file but have trouble with the format used (, and . separators)

 

[sarumbear]

Yes but there is something in Amir s loudspeaker measurements that do not convince me at all. And this is not the first time.

FYI, they are not @amirm's measurement. Do please the chart title. The standard says:

Listening Window
The listening window curve is a spatial average of the nine magnitude responses in the ±10º vertical and ±30º horizontal angular range.
• 0°
• ± 10º vertical
• ± 10º, ± 20º, ± 30º horizontal

Does any part of the response within the listening window is acceptable to you?

After all a designer is perfectly allowed to choose the design axis freely and it does no have to be necessarily 0°
And further measurements should be made taking this into account, taking as reference the axis giving the flattest and smoothest response as presumably the design axis.

Show me where it says the designer's chosen axis is not 0 degrees, please.

 

[Toni Mas]

Regarding the listenning window, if the design axis IS not 0 but rotated 20°, the limits of the windows should be rotated to, from -20°/20° to 0° /40° for example

 

[sarumbear]

Regarding the listenning window, if the design axis IS not 0 but rotated 20°, the limits of the windows should be rotated to, from -20°/20° to 0° /40° for example

Can you give us some examples of such designs, and their measurements, please?

 

[Endibol]

Mark Levinson? The Carolina Herrera of audio?

That’s exactly the question..

 

[Toni Mas]

Can you give us some examples of such designs, and their measurements, please?

Mine? I have not Klippel, just try to get by with arta ...

But i think It is a question of common sense if you move the design/listenning axis, you must rotate all the rest too, academically correct or not...

 

[Biagiod]

Yes but there is something in Amir s loudspeaker measurements that do not convince me at all. And this is not the first time.
After all a designer is perfectly allowed to choose the design axis freely and it does no have to be necessarily 0°
And further measurements should be made taking this into account, taking as reference the axis giving the flattest and smoothest response as presumably the design axis.

I do not know what kind of issues you have, but to assert that Amir measurements do not convince you "and this is not first time" is pure allucination.

Please explain which measurements you trust and from whom. Or if you do your own.

The design axis has to be 0 and then you can try to extend frequency response beyond +- 10/15 degres IF you know what you are doing. Claiming the opposite is plain .... silly in my book.

Please try to convince all of us that your main listening position is 20 degrees off and that you EXPECT your speaker to be perfect at that rather than, you know, slightly turning them straight at you

But again the world is a beutiful place.

Peace

 

[sarumbear]

Mine? I have not Klippel, just try to get by with arta ...

Are you the designer by any chance?

But i think It is a question of common sense if you move the design/listenning axis, you must rotate all the rest too, academically correct or not...

But where do you see that designer aimed for a different design axis? Nothing on their website tells us that requirement. Quite the contrary, their pictures clearly show on axis positioning.

Finally, what change do you expect if measured off-axis that will be different to what we see here?

 

[Toni Mas]

I do not know what kind of issues you have, but to assert that Amir measurements do not convince you "and this is not first time" is pure allucination.

Please explain which measurements you trust and from whom. Or if you do your own.

The design axis has to be 0 and then you can try to extend frequency response beyond +- 10/15 degres IF you know what you are doing. Claiming the opposite is plain .... silly in my book.

Please try to convince all of us that your main listening position is 20 degrees off and that you EXPECT your speaker to be perfect at that rather than, you know, slightly turning them straight at you

But again the world is a beutiful place.

Peace

I simply say i dont trust all these averagings though they wear the Klippel label, as i didn't trust the sauce they used at Stereophile either, nor even care too much about the Harmann sauce. I like to experiment, and consider that though some rationality is required in loudspeaker design there is no need to be so academic.

Btw, lately people tend to speak in the name of science as if science were God, i do not find anything good in this, and for sure nobody is God either.

 

[amirm]

Btw, lately people tend to speak in the name of science as if science were good, i do not find anything good in this

Science gives you the ability to read this text so I suggest you change your stance.

 

[Toni Mas]

Science gives you the ability to read this text so I suggest you change your stance.

Rather say the ability to critize which is more important to my eyes, and not simply accept what is written, whatever the autority of the writer

 

[sarumbear]

Rather say the ability to critize which is more important to my eyes, and not simply accept what is written, whatever the autority of the writer

You are not criticising. You are simply refuting without giving any reason. I tried to show you what I see but you fail to answer to the points I made. Unless you explain your points in a rational way, your words are meaningless.

 

[Toni Mas]

You are not criticising. You are simply refuting without giving any reason. I tried to show you what I see but you fail to answer to the points I made. Unless you explain your points in a rational way, your words are meaningless.

I simply defend the idea that the assessment provided by the Klippel method is biased by the choice of an arbitrary reference axis. Do you really find this meaningless? For me It is pretty obvious.

 

[sarumbear]

I simply defend the idea that the assessment provided by the Klippel method is biased by the choice of an arbitrary reference axis. Do you really find this meaningless? For me It is pretty obvious.

You are arguing about just one of the charts, which is the average listening window. What is wrong with the others? Care to explain, please?

Also, you failed to answer what is it that you want to see at off-axis that you can’t see here?

Or here?

 

[Toni Mas]

You are arguing about just one of the charts, which is the average listening window. What is wrong with the others? Care to explain, please?

Also, you failed to answer what is it that you want to see at off-axis that you can’t see here?

View attachment 300995

Or here?

View attachment 300996

The last one is an estimate, another sauce that i do not know the ingredients nor the taste. I prefer the real thing and choose my own condiments...

The former is useful to apreciate the directivity , but i simply ask for the typical 0° 15° 30° 45° curves which make easier apreciate their smoothness off axis

These are included in the Zip enclosed, but had problems to import due to formatting issues