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Xduoo TA-26 Tube Bliss

bbarreira

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Joined
Jan 22, 2020
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Hello.
I'm a long time ASR reader and fan. This forum totally changed my perspective on audio. I'm an audio aficionado for the past 20 years.
In this journey I bought and swapped several speakers, integrated amps then monoblocks, preamps, turntables, phono stages, CD players, then dump the turntables and CD players and went the DAC and Streaming route. Oh and...cables! Yes, a lot of that, too.
ASR gave me a new and fresh vision of this passion hobby. And for that i'm really grateful. It eased and settled my mind regarding cables, mains noise, filters, expensive high end brands and overall snake oil! It was like breathing and really appreciate music again, in all his simplicity. The mind is a funny thing.

Well i went the measurements and cut the buXXX route and i'm glad i did.
In these days, and after moving to a new home my "audio spot" consists in a pair of Sennheiser HD600 and an AMP/DAC Loxjie D30. Very humble and minimal, but sound is good and very detailed.
Unfortunately, at some point, i was not getting what i want. I guess my ears are too sensitive, but the truth is that after listening for a while, i started to get listening fatigue and a lot of times an headache.
I then tried other DACs and amps. Yes, large improvements, but there was always that high frequencies discomfort in some music. I thought, maybe HD600 are too bright! So i went the EQ road. Tried several profiles, and find really good results, especially with Oratory Optimum HiFi curve profile. But...after a while, the same annoyance came along.

I tried several DACs all with AKM or ESS chips, and some Topping Amps. All best measurements status. Great stuff, but the problem persisted for me. Maybe too flat...
So i tried a totally different approach. I read some good things about pairing the HD600 with a tube Amp. And really without thinking too much, i bought the Xduoo TA-26. It's a tube amp and i'm sure it measures poorly.

But, what can i say? Problem solved for me! I just listen to music now! I swapped the stock tubes with some better ones and is bliss for me. Everything feels right.

I guess you can put it like this, Topping A90 (and similar) is like reading a science book for college. You keep focused and aware of all the details..
Xduuo is like reading a novel...your mind just flows and goes with the fantasy.

So, is ASR wrong? Of course not. I´m grateful for Amir effort in really changing things! And things had to change. The secret is in the knowledge. Now that i know what's available, what is important, what is just audio fluff, and what top measurements gear sounds like (and it sounds really awesome) i can now choose what works for me without doubts and uncertainty.
Maybe i like a bit of "distortion" on my listening sessions...maybe i´m too sensitive to "perfect clean precise" sound. Maybe my brain just cannot rest and enjoy the music with all those microdetails jumping everywhere, screaming my attention.. All i know is that i´m good now.
So, dont be too fanatic or blind. Now that you have the knowledge, experiment and feel what you really enjoy! Is not about being right. All the right decisions on paper are not always the right decision for you!

I´m still going to be a ASR reader and fan. Even more now!
 

Snoopy

Major Contributor
Joined
Jul 19, 2021
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As long as your happy as it sounds things are alright. Measurements are nice but you might like your food way more salty compared to someone else.. who is to tell you are wrong.

I think most tube amps that measure ok and have a decent power output are hybrids. I might end up getting one of those in the future just for the look of the amplifier.
 
OP
B

bbarreira

Member
Joined
Jan 22, 2020
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31
Just to add, i replaced the stock tubes with a RCA 6AS7G NOS and a Tung Sol 6SN7GTB. Must say that with the stock tubes the sound was really bass oriented, a little boomy and some lack of clarity. Big sound but didint want to loose so many of the solid state qualities.
With the new tubes the sound changed so much. Got very similar to solid state actually, clarity, space, detailed but not so flat and with less focus on the details. Less bass than with stock tubes but more controlled and not all over the place. Lets the mids and highs shine through.

This tube amp its really a revelation.
 

xnor

Active Member
Joined
Jan 12, 2022
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207
Let me start by saying that "measures poorly" does not mean "sound poorly". Human hearing is limited and "forgiving" (lots of defects can be masked).
ASR reviews focus on measurements and sometimes highlight differences at a level that are lightyears away from being audible. You're not the first one to hyperfocus on measurements and think that better measurements have to result in better sound. But in many cases that's simply not the case.

Now on to the elephant in the room: you said the old setup sounded too flat, added a tube amp and now it doesn't sound as flat anymore.
As always I need to point out that frequency response (FR) is the most important metric.
What do tube amps commonly have? High output impedance. What does high output impedance do with dynamic driver headphones that have a resonance peak in the bass? Effectively it results in a bass boost.

You can get the same change in FR by adding a peaking EQ filter at around ~90 Hz for the HD600. How many dB depends on the output impedance of the amp. Btw, I'm assuming the amp produces a flat FR besides that which probably is not the case. There might also be a treble roll-off.

As for power, the HD600 are a light load (~0.25 V RMS to 90 dB SPL and high impedance) so distortion should not be too crazy.
 
OP
B

bbarreira

Member
Joined
Jan 22, 2020
Messages
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Yes. Dont know if flat is the right word and problably i used it wrong. What you said is true. The bass is more pronounced now.
I used EQ before with the HD600 but not on the low frequency. When i did, the bass became more evident but i never got to the point i want without sacrifice other charateristics of HD600 that i liked.. On the Oratory profile i remove all the adjustments below 1000Hz. Liked the sound but the same "fatigue" happen after a while.
As i said, this is for me. Others may not feel the same.

With this tube amp the sound is very close to the one i had with solid state. The diferrence is on the bass (more present and impactfull) and theres is a certain smothness in the sound that i cannot explain... Top end is there but not hitting my ears with a stick...

I must say that i still use the same EQ profile with the tube amp.
 

01890jp

Member
Joined
Oct 6, 2020
Messages
25
Likes
16
Hello.
I'm a long time ASR reader and fan. This forum totally changed my perspective on audio. I'm an audio aficionado for the past 20 years.
In this journey I bought and swapped several speakers, integrated amps then monoblocks, preamps, turntables, phono stages, CD players, then dump the turntables and CD players and went the DAC and Streaming route. Oh and...cables! Yes, a lot of that, too.
ASR gave me a new and fresh vision of this passion hobby. And for that i'm really grateful. It eased and settled my mind regarding cables, mains noise, filters, expensive high end brands and overall snake oil! It was like breathing and really appreciate music again, in all his simplicity. The mind is a funny thing.

Well i went the measurements and cut the buXXX route and i'm glad i did.
In these days, and after moving to a new home my "audio spot" consists in a pair of Sennheiser HD600 and an AMP/DAC Loxjie D30. Very humble and minimal, but sound is good and very detailed.
Unfortunately, at some point, i was not getting what i want. I guess my ears are too sensitive, but the truth is that after listening for a while, i started to get listening fatigue and a lot of times an headache.
I then tried other DACs and amps. Yes, large improvements, but there was always that high frequencies discomfort in some music. I thought, maybe HD600 are too bright! So i went the EQ road. Tried several profiles, and find really good results, especially with Oratory Optimum HiFi curve profile. But...after a while, the same annoyance came along.

I tried several DACs all with AKM or ESS chips, and some Topping Amps. All best measurements status. Great stuff, but the problem persisted for me. Maybe too flat...
So i tried a totally different approach. I read some good things about pairing the HD600 with a tube Amp. And really without thinking too much, i bought the Xduoo TA-26. It's a tube amp and i'm sure it measures poorly.

But, what can i say? Problem solved for me! I just listen to music now! I swapped the stock tubes with some better ones and is bliss for me. Everything feels right.

I guess you can put it like this, Topping A90 (and similar) is like reading a science book for college. You keep focused and aware of all the details..
Xduuo is like reading a novel...your mind just flows and goes with the fantasy.

So, is ASR wrong? Of course not. I´m grateful for Amir effort in really changing things! And things had to change. The secret is in the knowledge. Now that i know what's available, what is important, what is just audio fluff, and what top measurements gear sounds like (and it sounds really awesome) i can now choose what works for me without doubts and uncertainty.
Maybe i like a bit of "distortion" on my listening sessions...maybe i´m too sensitive to "perfect clean precise" sound. Maybe my brain just cannot rest and enjoy the music with all those microdetails jumping everywhere, screaming my attention.. All i know is that i´m good now.
So, dont be too fanatic or blind. Now that you have the knowledge, experiment and feel what you really enjoy! Is not about being right. All the right decisions on paper are not always the right decision for you!

I´m still going to be a ASR reader and fan. Even more now!
Just curious what you're using for a dac with the ta26. Are you using the rca outs from the d30?
 
OP
B

bbarreira

Member
Joined
Jan 22, 2020
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Yes. I read some reviews of other DACs and will upgrade one day but i dont really feel the need right now.. very good combo the D30(AKM version) + TA-26 with Sylvania 6SN7GT + HD600.
 

01890jp

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Joined
Oct 6, 2020
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Yes. I read some reviews of other DACs and will upgrade one day but i dont really feel the need right now.. very good combo the D30(AKM version) + TA-26 with Sylvania 6SN7GT + HD600.
Nice. I have a K5 Pro and was going to use the dac in that if I decided to get the TA26. I would even try running the audio out of my BTR5 with a 2.5 balanced to rca in to the TA26. Are you still loving the TA26 and hear a real difference? I have an HD600, HD6xx and a HD 560s so I'm really curious to find out if the magic is real with the Senns + Tube amp combo.
 
OP
B

bbarreira

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Jan 22, 2020
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Yes. Absolutly. If you can, go for it. I have never looked at other amps since, and finaly feel the HD600 are in another level. The tubes do something with the Senns. But be sure to switch the original tubes with better ones. Yes, it makes a diference. The original tubes will give you a huge sound and a taste of what you will get. But better tubes really narrow the gap of what you could miss in switching from solid state.
 

01890jp

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Oct 6, 2020
Messages
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Yes. Absolutly. If you can, go for it. I have never looked at other amps since, and finaly feel the HD600 are in another level. The tubes do something with the Senns. But be sure to switch the original tubes with better ones. Yes, it makes a diference. The original tubes will give you a huge sound and a taste of what you will get. But better tubes really narrow the gap of what you could miss in switching from solid state.
Thanks. If I get one I'll ask you about the different tubes you used. I have a drawer filled with guitar amp tubes including NOS but of course I don't think any of them are compatible with the TA26.
 
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bbarreira

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Jan 22, 2020
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Glad to help. Yes those probably wont work. If you are in Europe i can send you some tubes for you to try
 

PeterNL

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Jan 22, 2019
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Location
Netherlands
Here another happy new owner of Xduoo TA-26 :)
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Paired with Sennheiser HD600 sounds pretty awesome. Much different than E1DA PowerDac 2.1 or E1DA 9038s (I'm huge fan of Ivan and also Amir).
I still can not say or use word "better" to compare this tube amp to E1DA DAC/Amps, they are just different like day and night.
 

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tawsi

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Sep 26, 2022
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I've been using the xDuoo-ta 26 since 5 months now, I recently bought some tubes, a Psvane UK-6SN7 tube, an electro harmonix 6SN7 classic edition and a S6080-General Electric 6AS7G one,
I was very disapointed with the general electric tube it was very bad and sounded muffled i don't recommend anyone to buy this tube and brand, it is worse than the stock tube honestly.
The PSVANE was really good, the sound is more detailed, more open ,smooth sounding, a little bit more towards the bright side without being overly bright, it is a little bit more SS sounding
there is less bass than the stock tube but the bass is a little bit more tight but in the end I prefer the tonality of the stock tube, the 45$ PSVANE tube is very good don't get me wrong but the stock tube is warmer even though the stock tube is less detailed, vocals sound warmer and are more pleasant with stock tubes. the electro harmonix 6SN7 sounded quite good, sounded more open than stock tube, a little bit more detailed, but less warm like the PSVANE UK-6SN7, In terms of technicality the PSVANE and electro harmonix are better than the stock one, but in terms of overall tonality they sound less warm so i tend to prefer the stock one better, there is something very romantic with the tonality of stock tubes of the ta-26, after a long day of work, it is just the best combination. But I don't regret buying the PSVANE and the Electro Harmonix, I will just keep them when I will be buying the Sennheiser HD-800S. By the way I tested the tube with the Sennheiser HD 650, and stock tubes are better in combination with the 650, it may be different with another headphone, so i'd say, if you prefer a warmer sound signature stay with the stock tubes, i didn't tested Tung Sol and Mullard tubes cause they were out of stock, if you prefer a more SS and brighter, detailed sound signature you should look into the PSVANE UK-6SN7 tube and electro harmonix 6SN7 one. I strongly agree with zeos, the tonality of ta-26 stock tubes are very good, yes they are not as detailed as more expensive ones, but they're still very good overall. I was honestly surprised by stock tubes.
PS-UK-6SN7-2-Psvane-UK-6SN7-Hi-Fi-vacuum-tube-matched-PAIR-2.jpg
electro-harmonix-6sn7-eh-tube-reedition-classique.jpg
 
OP
B

bbarreira

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Jan 22, 2020
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I've been using the xDuoo-ta 26 since 5 months now, I recently bought some tubes, a Psvane UK-6SN7 tube, an electro harmonix 6SN7 classic edition and a S6080-General Electric 6AS7G one,
I was very disapointed with the general electric tube it was very bad and sounded muffled i don't recommend anyone to buy this tube and brand, it is worse than the stock tube honestly.
The PSVANE was really good, the sound is more detailed, more open ,smooth sounding, a little bit more towards the bright side without being overly bright, it is a little bit more SS sounding
there is less bass than the stock tube but the bass is a little bit more tight but in the end I prefer the tonality of the stock tube, the 45$ PSVANE tube is very good don't get me wrong but the stock tube is warmer even though the stock tube is less detailed, vocals sound warmer and are more pleasant with stock tubes. the electro harmonix 6SN7 sounded quite good, sounded more open than stock tube, a little bit more detailed, but less warm like the PSVANE UK-6SN7, In terms of technicality the PSVANE and electro harmonix are better than the stock one, but in terms of overall tonality they sound less warm so i tend to prefer the stock one better, there is something very romantic with the tonality of stock tubes of the ta-26, after a long day of work, it is just the best combination. But I don't regret buying the PSVANE and the Electro Harmonix, I will just keep them when I will be buying the Sennheiser HD-800S. By the way I tested the tube with the Sennheiser HD 650, and stock tubes are better in combination with the 650, it may be different with another headphone, so i'd say, if you prefer a warmer sound signature stay with the stock tubes, i didn't tested Tung Sol and Mullard tubes cause they were out of stock, if you prefer a more SS and brighter, detailed sound signature you should look into the PSVANE UK-6SN7 tube and electro harmonix 6SN7 one. I strongly agree with zeos, the tonality of ta-26 stock tubes are very good, yes they are not as detailed as more expensive ones, but they're still very good overall. I was honestly surprised by stock tubes.
View attachment 233453View attachment 233454
I found the stock tubes to be very "tubey". Good tonality but with extra bass. To much for my liking. The power tube is actually quite good but the pre tube is not ideal(for me). Some detail is lost and the bass can get bloated. You tried Psvane and electo harmonix wich are what i consider almost SS sounding. For me they are too bright and lose some of the tube magic (especialy the psvane). You shoul trie some realy good NOS tubes. Mostly the 6SN7 as i dont think the 6AS7G makes that much diference (the diference is there but not so evident as switching the 6SN7). But, some NOS can sound really bright too. You have to experiment. For me the Sylvanias area usualy good bet as they produce very balanced sound. Not SS but not too much tubey also. Just full sound with controled bass, softed down highs and sweet treble. But as you, i prefered the stock tubes some times against some NOS that i tried. Others NOS were much better than stock so currently my combo is RCA 6AS7G JAN and a Sylvania 6SN7GT. Paired with the HD600 and music is happiness:)
 

PeterNL

Member
Joined
Jan 22, 2019
Messages
83
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74
Location
Netherlands
Here another happy new owner of Xduoo TA-26 :)View attachment 231977View attachment 231978View attachment 231980View attachment 231982View attachment 231979

Paired with Sennheiser HD600 sounds pretty awesome. Much different than E1DA PowerDac 2.1 or E1DA 9038s (I'm huge fan of Ivan and also Amir).
I still can not say or use word "better" to compare this tube amp to E1DA DAC/Amps, they are just different like day and night.

Update 1.10.2022
Bought 2 another tubes:
- Ken-Rad 6SN7GT
- Sylvania 6SN7GTB "Chrome top"
Going to test and compare these to Hytron.
Ken-Rad:
IMG_20221001_135345.jpg
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Sylvania:

IMG_20221001_144819.jpg


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IMG_20221001_150829.jpg
 

lashto

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Mar 8, 2019
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535
Let me start by saying that "measures poorly" does not mean "sound poorly". Human hearing is limited and "forgiving" (lots of defects can be masked).
ASR reviews focus on measurements and sometimes highlight differences at a level that are lightyears away from being audible. You're not the first one to hyperfocus on measurements and think that better measurements have to result in better sound. But in many cases that's simply not the case.

Now on to the elephant in the room: you said the old setup sounded too flat, added a tube amp and now it doesn't sound as flat anymore.
As always I need to point out that frequency response (FR) is the most important metric.
What do tube amps commonly have? High output impedance. What does high output impedance do with dynamic driver headphones that have a resonance peak in the bass? Effectively it results in a bass boost.

You can get the same change in FR by adding a peaking EQ filter at around ~90 Hz for the HD600. How many dB depends on the output impedance of the amp. Btw, I'm assuming the amp produces a flat FR besides that which probably is not the case. There might also be a treble roll-off.

As for power, the HD600 are a light load (~0.25 V RMS to 90 dB SPL and high impedance) so distortion should not be too crazy.
Yes FR is the most important. Also easiest to hear. And yes you can EQ the diffs made by the high impedance (although for the 300 ohm HD650 they shouldn't be that big).

But you cannot EQ the effects of the tube THD and that's probably why those amps get so much love.

I fully agree with the OP's experience (using a very similar Darkvoice). Also tried/bought quite a few very well measuring SS amps. Can't really find any obvious flaws in their sound but they are gathering dust. Their sound seems to be 100% correct/clean/clear/etc ... it just does not 'touch' me in any way
 
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Califmike33

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May 31, 2020
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Thinking about buying this headphone amp anybody use this as a preamp into a solid state amp?
 

Leiker535

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Thinking about buying this headphone amp anybody use this as a preamp into a solid state amp?
Objectively, aside from the higher THD and bigger glow, the Ta-26 offers a slightly different signature on headphones because of the high OI it spouses, being an OTL (output transformerless) amplifier, so it pairs well with high Z headphones like the Senn HD 6xx's like the OP's. Using it as a preamp, you don't have that factor, so it'd be cheaper just using a hybrid tube amp from the mt60x line, as the preamp function just passes the signal through the tube buffer to add in the "colourful" distortion.
 

Califmike33

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So your tell[ing me if i run aux outs into a lets say cambridge axa 35 integrated amp i wont hear the tube sound in my speakers ? If thats the case why does Xduoo say its pre amp ???????? whats the point.
 
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