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xDuoo TA-20 Tube Balanced Headphone Amplifier Review

SIY

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FireLion

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What about a TA-10? tubes definitely changed how that sounded and I always found it to be pleasant.
I could also turn it up high with a TRX00 and max with headphones like an Argon and never have any clipping.
Had distortion on some tubes but others were very good and I could run IEMs on it.

Sold it to a guy who is running a HD800 and he loves it.

Edit: I got some amazing tubes on ebay, genuine mullards. Some Japanese variants and even a solid state AMT tube. I could also run 12ax7 and 12ae7, see the Zeos review for the tube I sent him.
Also some people don't seem to like it but others do, only reason for me selling was I am cutting back and it was overkill.
 
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hmscott

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What about a TA-10? tubes definitely changed how that sounded and I always found it to be pleasant.
I could also turn it up high with a TRX00 and max with headphones like an Argon and never have any clipping.
Had distortion on some tubes but others were very good and I could run IEMs on it.

Sold it to a guy who is running a HD800 and he loves it.

Edit: I got some amazing tubes on ebay, genuine mullards. Some Japanese variants and even a solid state AMT tube. I could also run 12ax7 and 12ae7, see the Zeos review for the tube I sent him.
As I was watching the Zeos review of the TA-10 again just now - before seeing your updated post! - I thought - "Hey, I wonder if @FireLion is the one that sent Zeos the tubes?!" - wild.

That's great!, btw is the "GE Tube" a 12AU7 or a 6201? GE 6201's do sound great on the TA-20 too. I have a few pairs of 6201's and they are a bit of a "sure thing" that can also be affordable. Given all the tubes I've heard, for someone wanting a "first" NOS tube for rolling on a 12AU7 pre-amp section I'd recommend the GE 6201 - GE, or the vast number of other makes - as a first (potentially) very affordable tube/pair to start tube rolling.

The HD800S's are on my list (not the 8XX). The Sennheiser HD660S / HD598cs were the motivation for getting a Tube based headphone amplifier, and my Beyerdynamic DT880/DT990 600 ohm models + IEM's were the motivation to get a Hybrid Tube Headphone Amplifier that could drive a wide range of impedances - 8-600 ohm.

After I had the Xduoo TA-20 and heard my Planar SendyAudio Aiva and TinHifi P1 Planar IEM, I was even more impressed with the TA-20, and started reading about and looking for affordable Planar headphones/IEMs. That lead to the finding Hifiman HE6SE V2 and Hifiman Ananda's on discount last year, which quickly became my favorite headphones on the TA-20. I still enjoy my Dynamic Headphones, but for my ears the Planars "performance" blossoms on the TA-20 Tube Hybrid.

It really is an enjoyable part of the hobby for me now, researching new makes/models while enjoying music through different valves. It's been a pleasant passing of time in this pandemic. What a godsend it has turned into for me to pass the time so enjoyably.

The Xduoo TA-10 (2000mW) looked like a great choice to me too, and I did consider the TA-10 instead of the Xduoo TA-20 (2000mW), until I bought the Topping D90 MQA / A90 - then I already had a DAC. I think the TA-10 would be a great "all-in-one" Tube Hybrid with DAC too for a great price right now: $290.90 if you can find it. It is out of stock at Xduoo, and I am not sure but I would imagine the new Xduoo TA-10R would be the replacement, at $319.99

Zeos also did a review of the TA-10R: Xduoo TA-10R _(Z Reviews)_ Lil Red Rocket! - YouTube

The big savings with the TA-10/TA-10R is that it takes 1/2 the cost for tube rolling, instead of the TA-20 / TA-30 needing 2 tubes in a Matched Pair for tube rolling. The TA-10/TA-10R/MT-601 all take only 1 tube. There have been numerous occasions where I have found a potentially great single tube, but I need a pair! I'm not quite far enough along to buy a single tube, hoping to find a perfect match for it "down the road".

The xDuoo MT-601 Tube Headphone Amp - xDuoo official store (only 200mW @ 32 ohm) takes a different model single tube, and I haven't personally directly experienced the MT-601 or the TA-10 (2000mW) / TA-10R (2000mW) / TA-30 (3000mW) either.

I do recall Zeos describing the differences after listening to the TA-20 in his review - and again in the TA-10R review, perhaps that will give some perspective for prospective Xduoo Hybrid headphone amplifier shoppers. Zeos also has an Xduoo TA-30 review, with a bit more power (3W) than the TA-20 (2W).

It's great hearing from another Tube Hybrid enthusiast, thanks for sharing your TA-10 experience and Zeos connection :)

What are you listening through now as a headphone amplifier?
 
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SIY

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What about a TA-10? tubes definitely changed how that sounded and I always found it to be pleasant.
I could also turn it up high with a TRX00 and max with headphones like an Argon and never have any clipping.
Had distortion on some tubes but others were very good and I could run IEMs on it.

Sold it to a guy who is running a HD800 and he loves it.

Edit: I got some amazing tubes on ebay, genuine mullards. Some Japanese variants and even a solid state AMT tube. I could also run 12ax7 and 12ae7, see the Zeos review for the tube I sent him.
Also some people don't seem to like it but others do, only reason for me selling was I am cutting back and it was overkill.

How did you determine that the tubes changed the sound? Could you please describe your controls and procedure?
 

SIY

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As I was watching the Zeos review of the TA-10 again just now - before seeing your updated post! - I thought - "Hey, I wonder if @FireLion is the one that sent Zeos the tubes?!" - wild.

That's great!, btw is the "GE Tube" a 12AU7 or a 6201? GE 6201's do sound great on the TA-20 too. I have a few pairs of 6201's and they are a bit of a "sure thing" that are also inexpensive. Given all the tubes I've heard, for someone wanting a "first" tube for rolling on a 12AU7 pre-amp section I'd recommend the GE 6201 - GE, or the vast number of other makes - as a first tube/pair to start tube rolling.

The HD800S's are on my list (not the 8XX). The Sennheiser HD660S / HD598cs were the motivation for getting a Tube based headphone amplifier, and my Beyerdynamic DT880/DT990 600 ohm models were the motivation to get a Hybrid Tube headphone Amplifier.

After I had the Xduoo TA-20 and heard my Planar SendyAudio Aiva and TinHifi P1 Planar IEM, I was even more impressed with the TA-20, and started reading about and looking for affordable Planar headphones/IEMs. That lead to the finding Hifiman HE6SE V2 and Hifiman Ananda's on discount last year, which quickly became my favorite headphones on the TA-20. I still enjoy my Dynamic Headphones, but for my ears the Planars "performance" blossoms on the TA-20 Tube Hybrid.

I'll share the current set I am enjoying, and yes they do sound great - a surprising side step up from the Brimar 6060 ("12AT7") and the Haltron E80CC ("12AT7"). All of these have a wide and tall sound stage, the BVA CV4024 with a more encompassing field from ear to ear - it was a bit shocking when I moved from the 6060's to these:
RARE Matched Quad NOS/NIB GEC/Mullard B309/M8162/CV4024/12AT7WA/ECC81 tubes 1958 | eBay

Given how great these sound - comments from Tubemaze's owner that he wanted me to get the 1968 production release instead - "lowest noise he's heard", that's saying something with his vast experience with tubes. Same price for both Quads, so he wasn't upselling me. The 1968 Quad set are next on my list, for comparison.
View attachment 152477
View attachment 152478

It really is an enjoyable part of the hobby for me now, researching new makes/models while enjoying music through different valves. It's been a pleasant passing of time in this pandemic. What a godsend it has turned into for me.

The Xduoo TA-10 looked like a great choice to me too, and I did consider the TA-10 instead of the TA-20, until I bought the Topping D90 MQA / A90 - then I already had a DAC. I think the TA-10 would be a great "all-in-one" Tube Hybrid with DAC too for a great price right now: $290.90 if you can find it. It is out of stock at Xduoo, and I am not sure but I would imagine the new Xduoo TA-10R would be the replacement, at $319.99

Zeos also did a review of the TA-10R: Xduoo TA-10R _(Z Reviews)_ Lil Red Rocket! - YouTube

The big savings with the TA-10/TA-10R is that it takes 1/2 the cost for tube rolling, instead of the TA-20 / TA-30 needing 2 tubes in a Matched Pair for rolling the TA-10/TA-10R/MT-601 all take only 1 tube.

The xDuoo MT-601 Tube Headphone Amp - xDuoo official store takes a different model single tube, but I haven't personally directly experienced the MT-601 or the TA-10 / TA-10R yet either.

I do recall Zeos describing the differences after listening to the TA-20 in his review - and again in the TA-10R review, perhaps that will give some perspective for prospective Xduoo Hybrid headphone shoppers. Zeos Xduoo TA-30 review, with a bit more power (3W) than the TA-20 (2W).

It's great hearing from another Tube Hybrid enthusiast, thanks for sharing your TA-10 experience and Zeos connection :)

What are you listening through now as a headphone amplifier?

6201 has the same characteristics as a 12AU7. This could be imagined.
 

Friend Crow

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That is the next stage for me as well, I'm thinking of getting another TA-20 to "operate on", but I'd like to discuss upgrades with Xduoo as they have the equipment and motivation to try different components and the tools to measure their effect on the TA-20 output. Leveraging their environment and interest in improving their own product is a good way to go about finding, testing, and introducing those improvements so everyone can benefit from them.

Amir has provided a great base of test results to use to improve the TA-20, results effected by, as you mentioned specifically, the TA-20 Opamps. As with using tubes outside the design envelope of the TA-20 design, it will be necessary to optimize these changes by engineering them into the TA-20 design, and going through the design cycle that includes testing for effect against the Base vs Desired outcome.

Often those measurable "improvements" don't actually improve the sound, or the customers listening experience. I'm sure Xduoo balanced cost vs. benefits while going through their original design cycle(s), but it has been more than a few years since the original introduction of the TA-20, so revisiting the design and components used is a good exercise that I hope Xduoo is interested in pursuing.

Among other things I'd like to see more power output as well as improving the components for better measurements that result in audible improvements.

I've PM'd you for discussing this out of the thread. I appreciate your sharing your research into what has worked so far for your and others. :)
Hope Im posting this in the right place..

Wondering how the conversation on upgrades to the Xduoo TA-20 is going. I have 2 TA-20s and I'm considering reworking one. Wondering if you've put together a parts list together yet? What Opamp would you use.

Im using RCA 12bh7 tubes and some Matsushita Japan 12BH7A in one of mine right now. Been running them about a year to see how well it holds up. Definitely like them better than any of the 10 or so different 12AU7 tubes I've tried including the Brimar CV4003.
 

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Friend Crow

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Something I would like to see on the TA-20 is a left/right balance. Older car radios had the volume knob and Left/right balance on the same control post. This would help with some of us that have unbalanced hearing. I hear better out of my right ear. So it's harder for me to get the holographic or 3D effects with headphones. Also most headphones have some imbalance to them between left to right. Some are 3-4 decibels off. A left/right balance control would help with this.
 

hmscott

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Hope Im posting this in the right place..

Wondering how the conversation on upgrades to the Xduoo TA-20 is going. I have 2 TA-20s and I'm considering reworking one. Wondering if you've put together a parts list together yet? What Opamp would you use.

Im using RCA 12bh7 tubes and some Matsushita Japan 12BH7A in one of mine right now. Been running them about a year to see how well it holds up. Definitely like them better than any of the 10 or so different 12AU7 tubes I've tried including the Brimar CV4003.
Something I would like to see on the TA-20 is a left/right balance. Older car radios had the volume knob and Left/right balance on the same control post. This would help with some of us that have unbalanced hearing. I hear better out of my right ear. So it's harder for me to get the holographic or 3D effects with headphones. Also most headphones have some imbalance to them between left to right. Some are 3-4 decibels off. A left/right balance control would help with this.
I answered on head-fi about the opamps, and don't forget to click the spoilers to see the photo's and diagrams:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-opamp-thread.432749/post-16699436

Then moved the thread back to the Xduoo Amplifier thread:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/xduoo-amplifiers.682282/post-16699624

Yup, the 12AU7's seem weak compared to 12AT7 and variants, but the 12AX7 is a bit too hot with the interface components and tuning as is in the TA-20. I haven't tried the 12BH7 yet, but it's like the E80CC that requires 2x current for B+ heater, bigger tube area, which makes the TA-20 run much hotter than normal, so I haven't used them much.

I prefer the Mullard 12AT7 NOS '68 and '58 tubes made in Mullard's Mitchem Factory in England, and the E180CC Mullard's made in Holland, as well as the Brimar 6060 Yellow T's made in England.

I also posted that I asked Xduoo to calculate the correct support components to fine tune support for 12AT7's since I am prefering those long term and the 12AU7 tuning as shipped might benefit from adjusting the values for the tube interface components. I also asked for the same for E80CC and E180CC tubes, and asked Xduoo to consider building a headphone amp that has switchable - or automatic tube detection to select the correct components. But, that may take a while...

I'll share with Xduoo your suggestions - in the past they've prefered uncomplicated user friendly interfaces - like no actual L/M/H Gain switch - instead taking up the slack with their volume control ramp.

I think Xduoo is already monitoring these threads so if anyone has any gripes or suggestions for Xduoo, post them here or on head-fi.org :)
 
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resonance_

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I've been using the TA-20 (with non-stock tubes) for 4 months or so, it was the only amp I had so was ofc fairly pleased with it.
However I've recently picked up a NAD 3020v2, primarily to use as a speaker amp. While I wait for the cables to arrive though, I've been using the TA-20 as a pre-amp and using the headphone out of the 3020.
There's a noticeable difference when adding the TA-20 vs without, and I wondered if anyone had any info on how the TA-20 actually functions as a pre-amp? I recall reading that it only utilises the solid-state route and doesn't involve the tubes. Either way, would love to know if anyone else has done similarly as well - and what they thought of the difference?
 

hmscott

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I've been using the TA-20 (with non-stock tubes) for 4 months or so, it was the only amp I had so was ofc fairly pleased with it.
However I've recently picked up a NAD 3020v2, primarily to use as a speaker amp. While I wait for the cables to arrive though, I've been using the TA-20 as a pre-amp and using the headphone out of the 3020.
There's a noticeable difference when adding the TA-20 vs without, and I wondered if anyone had any info on how the TA-20 actually functions as a pre-amp? I recall reading that it only utilises the solid-state route and doesn't involve the tubes. Either way, would love to know if anyone else has done similarly as well - and what they thought of the difference?
Well, the TA-20 cannot be used as a "tube buffer", because the RCA output is a simple passthrough from the input... yup, and so what you are hearing are the wires, connectors, and connections without any involvement of the tubes or the SS output.

The TA-26 however, along with some of the MT-6xx series can be used to pass on their "tubiness" to the downstream preamp/amp/powered speakers.

Xduoo were kind enough to provide information on how the TA-20 works internally, and the TA-20 passthrough "feature" is documented in their manual, highlighted here:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/xduoo-amplifiers.682282/post-16719732
And, more info provided by Xduoo:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/xduoo-amplifiers.682282/post-16814637

And, of course there is a noticeable difference as at each connection and cable there is a slight drop in signal, some frequencies more or sless than others.

I have tried driving my Topping A90 with the RCA output of the TA-20 and found the result to be less than the direct RCA feed from the Topping D90. It is rather obvious if we think about it, the signal coming direct from the source is going to have a better chance of being whole than a signal passing through other components.

Which is one of the reasons I quickly lost interest in passive components, which the RCA output of the TA-20 is in effect.

Congratulations on your TA-20 and your new NAD! Perhaps an inexpensive MT-6xx preamp or headphone amp will be able to satisfy your urge to tublify your new NAD? Here are some links at the beginning of discussions how / what to use to get Tube Buffer output to other components:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/xduoo-amplifiers.682282/post-16839174

Xduoo makes a tiny tube preamplifier in the same family as it's headphone amps:

XDuoo MT-603 Pre-Amplifier $109.00
https://xduoo.net/product/mt-603/

Finding out Xduoo has a Tube Preamp - not only tube and hybrid tube headphone amps:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/xduoo-amplifiers.682282/post-16821583

And, someone bought one and is using it to have the effect you are trying to get out of the TA-20 :)
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/xduoo-amplifiers.682282/post-16833169

Please let us know how you get on with your tubifying progress, as there are many paths to audio enjoyment :)
 
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Hamrin

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Anybody knows which is the hot pin of XLR input? Cannot find it anywhere.
 

rocksteady

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This review finally confirms what I have been thinking for a while. Numbers are important, but they're not everything. After going through countless dac / amp combos the single best solution I've found for my LCD 2's is the Xduoo TA-20 (this amp) and the Sabaj D5. On its own the D5 is too clinical, very fatiguing and tin sounding (for my ears, on my setup) and often underpowered.

The Xduoo TA-20 opened the sound up beautifully, softened the highs and with lovely warm mids. I upgraded the stock tubes (they're ok, not great) to a pair of matched psvane tubes. I tried using Eq on the D5 before spending money on this. It helped but the result was never as good.

Honestly I'm not interested into getting into a massive debate as many on this site love, I'm only posting to help other potential buyers of this unit. The numbers would imply it is a total waste of space!

I'm too young to remember tube amplifiers, so there is no nostalgia and just good sound for me :)
“…softened the highs.” This sounds terrible to me. The main reason I gave up on Valve Amps altogether…
 

rocksteady

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OMG I hadn't seen this review. It is possibly the worst performing amp I have ever seen. It's just an effects box which will audibly change the sound.

If that's what you want that's fine, but it has nothing to do with hifi.

Hifi - faithful to the original.
“Hifi - faithful to the original.” Exactly. Strangely, it is a principle that seems to increasingly evade more and more Audiophiles these days.
 

Hamrin

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If sh*t goes in... Sh*t comes out...

The curious thing is that people use to "see" how perform something that is supposed to be used with "ears"... ;)
 
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