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Wow! Genelec GRADE looks amazingly useful

Zaireeka

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Just curious to see the whole thing, and compare with my measurement even if our rooms and models are different
 
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Just curious to see the whole thing, and compare with my measurement even if our rooms and models are different
I’ve had a look and there are a few details that I’d rather not share publicly (serial numbers, personal notes etc). I am happy to privately send you a copy if you DM me your email address.
 

Zaireeka

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New report, with minimal acoustic treatment (2 Vicoustic basstraps, 2 absorbers behind the speakers, 1diffusor).


The change is pretty significant on the T60 graph. The 111cm / 154Hz reflections are due to the ceiling but don't translate into peaks in the frequency response, but I got to do something for the deep 117 and 72Hz notches...
 
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Kervel

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New report, with minimal acoustic treatment (2 Vicoustic basstraps, 2 absorbers behind the speakers, 1diffusor).


The change is pretty significant on the T60 graph. The 111cm / 154Hz reflections are due to the ceiling but don't translate into peaks in the frequency response, but I got to do something for the deep 117 and 72Hz notches...
Thanks for sharing both reports before and after your treatment! In comparing the two, Im surprised that the early vs late reflection ratio doesnt improve much--despite your bass traps and absorbers. I agree that RT60 improved, but just a little (mostly your right speakers resonance at 209 hz). Also, the measured FR doesnt seem to clearly improve (some frequencies worsen others improve...). To make things more difficult, perhaps some of the changes are due to slight variations in the measurement location.

I have the same monitors also in an untreated living room with similar size, and my report shows very similar problems. I wonder which type of room treatment reduces the late frequency response.
 

linear diver

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Thanks everyone for sharing their GRADEs. Here is the report for my room, which is 20ft x 20ft with a 12.5ft vaulted ceiling. I have a set of room treatments coming at the end of July, so this is the 'before' state. It's interesting to compare these reports side by side. I am also starting to take REW measurements and so far, they are consistent with what GRADE/GLM shows - at least up to the level of my incompetence :)
 

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Zaireeka

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Like linear diver I'm at the beginning of the acoustic treatment journey, I wanted to test the water first by adding few elements but of high quality and easily integrated, (the absorbers for example are gorgeous Ekustik 60x120 pannels: https://www.thomann.de/fr/widara_woody_queen_absorber_bordeaux.htm) to see if I can hear the difference and observe the changes step by step thanks to GLM.

I know that my mic placement is different from before installing all the stuff, and I even decided to move the stands in order to put the absorbers between the speakers and the wall so comparing the before/after is not totally pertinent right now. I'll try to stick to a 4 points sampling method in the future (LP, 30cm left, 30cm right and 30cm back) which seemes logical but maybe it's not the best way of doing it...

Changes can definitely be heard, which is a relief after having spent 1k€ in acoustic stuff. Maybe a placebo effect is at play too, but I'm pretty sure I can already hear a more defined mid to high bass register. My room is still on the clear side and needs much more treatment to get clean curves...

I still have to also work on the optimal speakers placement, to avoid the 72Hz room mode that I can see in all the curves and clean up the rest of the low register. For reducing the late reflections I think the best solution is to damp the rear wall with thick material, not 100% sure about this though...
 
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sarumbear

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I’m very happy to see a major speaker manufacturer helping owners to pay attention to acoustics of the listening environment. It was long overdue. I hope this will help people to wake up to the importance of acoustics.

There are umpteen number of very comprehensive, and expensive home theatre systems around, which has little to none effective acoustic treatment.
 
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Zaireeka

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Third report, to test absorbers in the corners instead of behind the speakers, mostly for aesthetics...

The curves and decay time are a bit better, the RT60 is flatter on the whole spectrum, I think I'll keep it that way and play with the distance from front and lateral walls to reduce the nulls under 150Hz. With a small boost @ 90Hz the system begins to sound very nicely :)

 

Tangband

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I think the Genelec GRADE is a nice bonus to GLM .:)
For me , the new uppgraded 4.2.0 version of GLM also sounds a bit better than the last version , and having everything inbuilt in the loudspeaker ( You can put away the GLM box after measurements and store the calibration into each speaker ) is a very neat, clean solution in a studio or in a livingroom.

Right now I have a hard time to see any real competition in sound quality because the SAM monitors also have digital inputs, the ability to drive the dsp crossover with a digital signal is the next level in high-end.

 
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kuf

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@Zaireeka

did you try to make changes in speaker's position?
I have also a (new) pair of 8350 and I found that moving speakers as little as 0.5 m can make enormous change in the frequency response graphs.
I don't know if there is any other way to fix these deep and wide dips that are caused by room modes.

I keep moving my speakers in a try to fix the frequency response and other graphs. I'll post some meuserements when I'll have time.
 

Trell

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@Zaireeka

did you try to make changes in speaker's position?
I have also a (new) pair of 8350 and I found that moving speakers as little as 0.5 m can make enormous change in the frequency response graphs.
I don't know if there is any other way to fix these deep and wide dips that are caused by room modes.

I keep moving my speakers in a try to fix the frequency response and other graphs. I'll post some meuserements when I'll have time.

Adding a subwoofer can also help for dips in the bass, assuming you can place it where it’s needed along with an appropriate crossover frequency.
 

Zaireeka

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@Zaireeka

did you try to make changes in speaker's position?
I have also a (new) pair of 8350 and I found that moving speakers as little as 0.5 m can make enormous change in the frequency response graphs.
I don't know if there is any other way to fix these deep and wide dips that are caused by room modes.

I keep moving my speakers in a try to fix the frequency response and other graphs. I'll post some meuserements when I'll have time.
I found a way better spot indeed, even if they are further from the wall, no loss in low frequencies quality and a more focused stereo and better center channel. I used the noaudiophile speaker placement calculator with slight adjustements to make things work despite the huge cabinet that sits in my room... Also found that placing the absorber pannel only behind the left speaker worked better and showed nicer and more balanced curves between left and right.

genelec 1.jpg


My last Grade report corresponding to the photo above

Adding a subwoofer can also help for dips in the bass, assuming you can place it where it’s needed along with an appropriate crossover frequency.
Adding a Genelec sub is part of the plan, they are not cheap but the GLM integration is so handy and powerful that I'll happily pay a bit more for a 73xx model soon. Probably a 7360 to keep the audio gear small and not too intrusive...
 
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kuf

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Adding a subwoofer can also help for dips in the bass, assuming you can place it where it’s needed along with an appropriate crossover frequency.

I wait for a 7360 to come, and I will consider a another one. So at the moment I'm looking mainly for a placement with as little problems as possible in the 3rd and to a lesser extend the 4th octaves.
 

Zaireeka

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I'm very curious to see you before/after sub measurements! Having already one dealing with the 20-85Hz region allows for much more freedom in the main speakers position, without a doubt.

Time for some music now...
 

Trell

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Adding a Genelec sub is part of the plan, they are not cheap but the GLM integration is so handy and powerful that I'll happily pay a bit more for a 73xx model soon. Probably a 7360 to keep the audio gear small and not too intrusive...

I’ve the 7360A for my pair of 8330A and that works very well for near field listening, though my possible placement positions are quite limited. The best I could get was a narrow -10 dB dip centered at 40 Hz but otherwise flat to below 20 Hz. For many types of music adding the subwoofer was a marked improvement but otherwise more subtle.

Using GLM testing various placements of the SAM enabled subwoofer is quite quick. Note also that the slope of the crossover is a very steep 48 dB/octave, and can helpful for a more “precise” choice of crossover frequency.

You might find that the 7360A subwoofer is too weak for your monitors but here a good return policy is very useful to test out.

And last, the Genelec subwoofer is not what I would call pretty but it sure gives me peace of mind where it’s tucked underneath my desk due to it’s robust construction.
 
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Zaireeka

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I think the 12" equiped 7370A would probably be a bit overkill for my actual listening room of 27m², and investing the price difference in more acoustic treatment would be more beneficial in the long run. I like to push up the volume sometimes but I mostly listen at a rather moderated level. I also wonder if placing two 7350 (8") wouldn't be more efficient than a single 7360 (10") in terms of overall level and sound quality...

Have you tried setting the sub at your listening position to find by hear or with an RTA the spot where the bass is smoother?
 
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Trell

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I think the 12" equiped 7370A would probably be a bit overkill for my actual listening room of 27m², and investing the price difference in more acoustic treatment would be more beneficial in the long run. I like to push up the volume sometimes but I mostly listen at a rather moderated level. I also wonder if placing two 7350 (8") wouldn't be more efficient than a single 7360 (10") in terms of overall level and sound quality...

Have you tried setting the sub at your listening position to find by hear or with an RTA the spot where the bass is smoother?
That won’t work when using GLM as the 7350 can’t be daisy chained like the 7360 or higher models.

When trying out various positions for my 7360 in my home office I used a single point GLM calibration and inspected the resulting frequency graph. Each position took me less than 3 minutes or so to check. When I found the subwoofer position to use I recalibrated with multiple measurements.
 
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Trell

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That's a pity, I thought using the AES/EBU in/outs could do the trick...

I don't know if you've already seen this link but it contains a table of which subwoofers are recommended to which monitor.

 
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