Would you recommend upgrading from the miniDSP 2x4 HD to the DDRC-24?

[PeterNL]

Here are the measurements of the 9 points referring to the first picture of this 3D. One is completely wrong. What do you think?

Repeat ddb measurement and then show filter design. Bda looks suspicious as well.

 

[musica]

After correcting ddb, what do you say?

 

[PeterNL]

After correcting ddb, what do you say?

I don't know what to say....there is a huge frequency drop above 1.5-2kHz !! Are You sure that your speakers are not damaged ? What speakers do you have ? How does the audio chain looks like ? Why Dirac says "Dirac1" and "Dirac2" instead of left and right ?
Something is wrong !!

 

[musica]

The speakers are B&W 685, but I don’t think it’s their fault. The drop in the upper mids is the same on both channels, Dirac 1 and 2, because it’s the calibration of the miniDSP DDRC24.

 

[PeterNL]

The speakers are B&W 685, but I don’t think it’s their fault. The drop in the upper mids is the same on both channels, Dirac 1 and 2, because it’s the calibration of the miniDSP DDRC24.

Looks like their "normal behavior", very bad FR :/
I think that there is not much to do, move right curtain to +/- 400Hz but also left curtain to the point of their natural roll off (can't believe that this speakers hit 23Hz ! Must be resonance or something else.) Drop low frequency boost from 12dB to 5-6dB too.

Then, show us again screenshot but please turn off "spread".

 

[TurtlePaul]

After correcting ddb, what do you say?

How can +12 dB bass boost sound OK? Clearly way too much for me. You are also EQing up the treble, so it is probably a very V-shaped sound.

 

[musica]

I remind you that I also have an active subwoofer; my system is a 2.1.

 

[TurtlePaul]

I remind you that I also have an active subwoofer; my system is a 2.1.

So how does it sound?

I couldn't imagine that +10 dB 50 hz vs. 150 hz wouldn't sound like the bass lacks any definition.

Just try to set the bass boost to +5 dB (from +12 dB) and the treble slope to -5dB (from -3 dB) and let us know what you think.

 

[Keith_W]

I don't know what to say....there is a huge frequency drop above 1.5-2kHz !! Are You sure that your speakers are not damaged ? What speakers do you have ? How does the audio chain looks like ? Why Dirac says "Dirac1" and "Dirac2" instead of left and right ?
Something is wrong !!

Answer can be found by comparing these two images:

On-axis.

Off-axis. Notice that the FR of the left speaker (purple)is much flatter than the right. Also the scoop above 1.5kHz is much less prominent in the left speaker.

Answer: (1) OP needs to toe-in his speakers a bit more, and (2) the gain of the subwoofer needs to be dropped by about 15dB.

 

[PeterNL]

Answer: (1) OP needs to toe-in his speakers a bit more, and (2) the gain of the subwoofer needs to be dropped by about 15dB.

Yes Keith, You are right, OP should experiment with angle, drop SW gain and redo Dirac calibration. I totally forgot about subwoofer
Btw. Purple=right speaker.

 

[musica]

I don’t have space to move the speakers further apart; if I angle them toward the listening point, would I greatly reduce the soundstage or not?

 

[Keith_W]

I don’t have space to move the speakers further apart; if I angle them toward the listening point, would I greatly reduce the soundstage or not?

It would have taken you less time to toe them in and listen than to compose your post.

 

[Flaesh]

if I angle them toward the listening point, would I

What's stopping you from trying?))

 

[musica]

In what way can I verify the correction of Dirac on the miniDDRC-24 with REW?

 

[Flaesh]

Here's the output signal from a cheap DAC:

If after correction it's noticeably more similar to this than before, that's already good)

 

[staticV3]

In what way can I verify the correction of Dirac on the miniDDRC-24 with REW?

By setting your DDRC-24 as output and your measurement mic as input in REW, then just do the default single point measurement sweep and ideally a Moving Microphone Method in-room response measurement as well.

 

[TheZebraKilledDarwin]

After correcting ddb, what do you say?

Now every room is different and it takes experience to hear what is causing the biggest problem, but IME it usually is NOT the frequency domain, but the time domain.
I looked at your measurements and I see a big problem in the time domain you might want to investigate further (by using the ears):

Pay attention to the 40 ms time window:

Here is the initial slice:

The measurement IMO shows 2 probably significant problems:

The 60 Hz range:
it becomes roughly 4 dB LOUDER, after 40 ms, than any bass region before.
The 60 Hz are very important for kicks, many kicks have the most energy in exactly that region. If bass is perceived in a room as professionally punchy sounding, is not so much dependent on the frequency response, but that the kick's fundamental does not become louder over time, but hits and vanishes.

I can't go into too much detail of audio production, but as a rough general rule our hearing prefers a frequency response that looks similar to pink noise and not some frequencies sticking out like a thumb.

Look at the 40ms slice: in that case the 60 becomes extremely dominant: roughly 15 dB louder than the 80-100 region and it also dominates the subbass.
I would not be very surprised, if certain 58-60 kicks do sound powerful, but not in a professional manner.

What you want to to achieve, is to get that late 60 peak under control:
You don't need a flat decay response, all you have to do is, that you aim for a result, where the 60 does not become as hugely dominant, so that it looks more like a slope with the surrounding frequencies and does not overshoot everything else.

This is done either with EQing, or/and or sub placement and/or using the 2nd sub.

Use your ears to determine, which solution offers the best compromise.
Do not focus on a flat frequency response, focus on the perceived punch and precision of the kick.

And last but not least:
as reference material, do not use in your room good sounding mixes, but use a decent mix with a kick that sounds problematic, because of that late 60 Hz buildup.

The 30 range:
The second problem I see is the roughly 7 dB louder buildup @30 Hz. It's a bit excessive, but you probably don't hear it, because of the very dominant 60 Hz buildup. If you get that 60 Hz peak int he time domain under control, you should be able to hear, that the 30 is a bit too much.

To be able to hear the 60 problem better, I'd cut the 30, or highpass @25 as first measure, deal with the 60 and then come back to balance the 30 with the rest.

 

[musica]

Now every room is different and it takes experience to hear what is causing the biggest problem, but IME it usually is NOT the frequency domain, but the time domain.
I looked at your measurements and I see a big problem in the time domain you might want to investigate further (by using the ears):

View attachment 480650

Pay attention to the 40 ms time window:
View attachment 480651


Here is the initial slice:
View attachment 480652

The measurement IMO shows 2 probably significant problems:

The 60 Hz range:
it becomes roughly 4 dB LOUDER, after 40 ms, than any bass region before.
The 60 Hz are very important for kicks, many kicks have the most energy in exactly that region. If bass is perceived in a room as professionally punchy sounding, is not so much dependent on the frequency response, but that the kick's fundamental does not become louder over time, but hits and vanishes.

I can't go into too much detail of audio production, but as a rough general rule our hearing prefers a frequency response that looks similar to pink noise and not some frequencies sticking out like a thumb.

Look at the 40ms slice: in that case the 60 becomes extremely dominant: roughly 15 dB louder than the 80-100 region and it also dominates the subbass.
I would not be very surprised, if certain 58-60 kicks do sound powerful, but not in a professional manner.

What you want to to achieve, is to get that late 60 peak under control:
You don't need a flat decay response, all you have to do is, that you aim for a result, where the 60 does not become as hugely dominant, so that it looks more like a slope with the surrounding frequencies and does not overshoot everything else.

This is done either with EQing, or/and or sub placement and/or using the 2nd sub.

Use your ears to determine, which solution offers the best compromise.
Do not focus on a flat frequency response, focus on the perceived punch and precision of the kick.

And last but not least:
as reference material, do not use in your room good sounding mixes, but use a decent mix with a kick that sounds problematic, because of that late 60 Hz buildup.

The 30 range:
The second problem I see is the roughly 7 dB louder buildup @30 Hz. It's a bit excessive, but you probably don't hear it, because of the very dominant 60 Hz buildup. If you get that 60 Hz peak int he time domain under control, you should be able to hear, that the 30 is a bit too much.

To be able to hear the 60 problem better, I'd cut the 30, or highpass @25 as first measure, deal with the 60 and then come back to balance the 30 with the rest.

How do you report Dirac measurements in Rew?

 

[musica]

Here is the REW file with the Dirac ON and OFF measurements. What exactly did Dirac correct?

 

[TheZebraKilledDarwin]

Here is the REW file with the Dirac ON and OFF measurements. What exactly did Dirac correct?

The decay behaviour with Dirac activated looks singificantly better to me. That delayed 60 Hz dominance is gone.
Even buildups over time in general seem to be avoided. Almost everything is nicely kept at or below the initial slice.
Chapeau to the Dirac system, if this is the result of it's automatic correction.

A helpful before/after reference you can check out might be the kick in Tiesto - Adagio for Strings.
That (long) kick is prone to become overly dominant in smaller rooms with a certain buildup in the 55-60 region. If the kick sounds a bit more compact and punchy, interacts more with the 1/16th note bassline, instead of dominantly sitting on top of everything and squashing all the bass, then I think you're on a good way.