Would you consider an all-in-one active speaker system if the engineering is done right?

[Blew]

Many successful startups (maybe even most) take an already implemented idea and somehow manage to overtake the earlier movers. e..g. MS-DOS which eventually morphed into Windows. Lots of other examples.

Especially in tech. Once upon a time NVIDIA was the scrappy underdog to 3DFX's undisputed dominance of the GPU market, Blackberry almost completely owned the "smart" phone market, and almost everyone used Netscape to browse the internet.

 

[Curvature]

noncardioid all-in-ones by JBL

JBL 4329P Studio Monitor Speaker Review

JBL 4329P Studio Monitor Review

www.erinsaudiocorner.com

Had this one in mind. It's awesome but pricy.

 

[mglobe]

Like I think many here, I prefer to have at least some separate components, partly to have stuff to play with. But I also that so that I can be nimble wrt technology. I see streaming and DSP as the playing fields that are likely to continue to evolve and advance, much more so than DACs, amps, and speakers (though to a lesser extent). For that reason, if I were to go with a an integrated active speaker, I would at least want the capability to feed a digital signal that comes from some streaming/server source, and goes through an external DSP. The exception to these comments would be if I’m setting up a secondary system in a living room, where I don’t want to see anything but the speakers. For my listening space if the speakers had DSP on the level of RoomPerfect, Dirac, or Trinnov along with streaming and Roon, I might be interested. Yeah, we’re talking $$ with Dirac annd RoomPerfect and $$$ with Trinnov.

 

[Mr. Widget]

Would you consider an all-in-one active speaker system if the engineering is done right?​

Absolutely! That is precisely why I bought my D&D 8Cs.

What do u prefer, if it fails, replace the whole package from distributors or send u the decoupled component for self replacement?

I prefer the D&D approach. field replaceable modules. Shipping an entire speaker to a repair facility is a hassle.

 

[RexrothPigeon]

我更倾向于在设备内部打造一个集成式的流媒体播放器，而不是成为仅从主机接收数字信号的功放与音箱从属设备。

uh

 

[whoselife]

Lose the streamer, or at least provide a way to input digital audio (usb or spdif) and I would be interested.

If I was building a new system or starting over (which I am probably not).

Active biamplification internal to the speaker box is the obvious best approach to the engineering problem. Send the box a digital stream, do the crossover and whatever EQ is needed in the digital domain, and use internal amps to drive the drivers.

It probably will not catch on with "audiophiles" who like to tinker and swap individual components, but there's a reason almost all studio monitors are active bi- or tri-amped with the amps & crossovers in the box with the drivers.
-
Frankly, I don't understand why passive crossovers are still a thing in "high-end" audio other than that hobbyists like to fiddle with their setup, as pointed out above. And the sales reps won't be able to upsell the customer with high markup high commission magic speaker cables.

The brief architecture of the device is, the streamer feeds the I2S signal directly into pcm-to-pwm Class-D amp that integrates DSP function inside, so as to separately drive the loudspeaker units without any DAC precess involed. The advantages r quite appealing to me, first of all, all modulation logic runs in digital logic gates, there are no analog-comparator-generated analog signals throughout the whole process, it’s simplified and better noise-free, perhaps can reduce the malfunctioning chances, and the BOM cost would be lower as well.

 

[solderdude]

Build it and have it reviewed and give at least 10 years warranty on it and if it outperforms the current offerings at a considerable lower price.
Make it readily available globally with a decent service (update firmware etc) and it will find its place in the market.

The problem may be support and ensuring very little failures over time and guaranteeing repairs during its life.

It's one thing to make something that works satisfactory and another thing to have it working properly over many years for an affordable price.

 

[whoselife]

Rather than provide an exhaustive list, essentially the same measurements made in the speaker reviews by Amir here in this forum and the speaker reviews by Erin's Audio Corner. If the speakers are active, the same measurements made by Amir for the electronics.


It depends on price, length of the warranty period and the availability of replacement parts. I like an all-in-one solution, but fom a new company, I probably would prefer separates unless the system is inexpensive enough that I don't mind replacing it in 5 years or the electronics are available elsewhere if the company goes out of business (e.g., Hypex plate amplifiers).


Very important. The more expensive the system, the more important it becomes to me to be able to repair it, which may include replacing failed components.


Good spinorama/directivity, low distortion and sufficient SPL are thresholds for me to even consider purchasing a system. Without them, I am not interested in the system, regardless of the architecture. Also, see answers to 2 and 3 above.


Designs that are not rugged (e.g., see the Topping B100 amplifier thread - good measurements, but too many failures in customers' hands), lack of PEQ/room correction features, lack of full featured subwoofer output and speaker/subwoofer integration (selectable crossover frequencies, crossover topologies, crossover slopes, and continuously variable time delay), connectivity issues, and speakers that look more like industrial hardware than home furnishings. The ability to import and use FIR filters is a benefit, but do not forego the ability for the user also to define and set IIR filters.

Frankly speaking, I place great importance on CEA‑2034 measurement results. After completing my subjective sound‑quality evaluations via ABX double‑blind tests, I always cross‑reference measurements from Amir and Erin's Audio Corner to retrospectively analyze the discrepancies between what is perceived aurally and what is measured.

I aim to elevate the system integration level toward an all‑in‑one form factor. On one hand, active‑system hardware together with DSP grants me higher‑dimensional freedom for acoustic tuning. On the other hand, I intend to achieve full decoupling between electronic circuit boards and the speaker enclosure. That said, this cannot be fully explained in a few words. Feel free to dive deeper into this topic if you are interested.

 

[whoselife]

Other than a display, Kii Audio has been making those for years. You're way behind the curve on this.

Kii Audio is an excellent reference and clearly serves as a great benchmark. That said, there are two aspects I am not fully satisfied with. First, its cardioid‑pattern bass performance cannot simultaneously deliver a lower controlled frequency limit and sufficient sound‑pressure level. Second, it comes with a very steep price tag. I would also like to explore whether its core functions can be achieved at a substantially lower cost — admittedly, this is no easy task.

Given my position within the upstream segment of the audio industry, where I have long‑term experience providing acoustic simulation‑design services for major audio manufacturers, there is a viable path to close this entire chain. After all, this is an engineering problem, not a scientific one.

 

[Redacted]

Although I have an all-in-one streamer amp for WAF reasons, I favour separates. So normally, I'd go for passive speakers. I'm not keen on multiple ADC/DAC conversions, although quality apparently does not suffer much - it just seems like pointless expense - but I'd consider active speakers so long as they had a digital input. Fibre or co-ax. And so long as the thing was modular enough to allow a range of sizes and power output and a full set of nice config controls. Also maybe add a digital out from the speakers so you could upgrade to having slave subs, but with the XO and volume part of of single control for the system.
I'd still worry about whether any software control would be supported in 5 or 10 years!

 

[Soundproof]

Quite a few reasons why I wouldn't consider that (again - there's been plenty of similar concepts in the past).

1: I's not the amp breaking - it's the system, "all of it".
2: I'll get locked in
3: Future adaptations
4: Technology evolves and sometimes there's a revolution. New audio/video formats - like Sirius and DAB then DAB+ for radio and USB C and HDMI eArc, or comes and goes like MQA.
5: Software. Security fixes for old Android and so on. Software expires or gets abandoned. (Many will learn that from the plethoria of the EV carpet bombing in the car industri - like Fisker), and many got a TV with old umaintained software.

The main showstoppers as far as I'm concerned are software, future sources and connectivity.

 

[sergeauckland]

For me, the biggest disincentive to any such product is software obsolescence. We keep seeing this with other products. Just two recent examples:-

Amazon have discontinued supporting their earlier Kindles with the effect that they're now virtually useless.
Microsoft with Windows 11 have effectively killed off the use of any computer without the security chip, unless the user wants to jump through hoops to circumvent the security.

We also have the BBC and Spotify modifying their requirements such that without ongoing development, it becomes impossible to access their services. Fortunately, LMS is supported by an army of volunteers that keep it current, but even they're failing against Spotify's attempts to force all users away from third-party players.

I would be mightily unhappy if one of the functions I used extensively in such an integrated product stopped working after a few years, or even 10 years, only because of changing software requirements whilst the hardware was still perfectly functional.

S

 

[whoselife]

Sure i would.

Display on the remote, e.g. phone app, is the better solution for UI reasons.

Isn't Sonos 5 an example?

What I aim to achieve is more serious‑grade acoustic results, not oriented toward lifestyle aesthetics, but rather tailored for enthusiasts and people with high demands for acoustic performance. Unlike many past products, the goal of high integration is to eliminate unnecessary processing stages. One example is a purely‑digital signal‑chain system design: digital sources feed digital signals into the DSP. After DSP processing, I²S digital signals are fed into a PCM‑to‑PWM Class‑D amplifier module for direct digital‑modulated amplification. No analog signals are involved throughout this process. This effectively removes ADC and DAC stages, bringing down costs while improving performance.

Regarding the commonly‑cited concerns over maintenance and upgradability, my approach is to decouple the electronic boards from the speaker enclosure, forming independent design closed‑loops for these two major assemblies, and building the system around these as the largest integrated units. Under this scheme, users receive a purely passive loudspeaker without a crossover, alongside a separate box housing all software and active components. All user‑side maintenance and upgrades can be performed solely on this box, with no need to replace speaker drivers, directivity‑control waveguides, or the speaker enclosure itself.

 

[Soundproof]

The main questions I have with this would still be:
- Sources - you'll either have to integrate those into your box - essentially a receiver, you'll have to make your own separate box which is back to modules, or you'll have to allow for 3rd party options?
- Connectivity - BT, Wifi, HDMI++ standards and therefore hardware plus protocols evolves. How do you intend to keep this "future proof"?
- Software - Afaik there are 2 main vendors to visit, QT/Sailfish or Android, any thoughts?

 

[jerryfreak]

Other than a display, Kii Audio has been making those for years. You're way behind the curve on this.

Dynaudio AIR as well, for prob close to two decades

Dynaudio AIR monitor series | Optimal sound and performance

A complete monitor range of near to mid-field for small studios to OB vans on up. Consistent performance across the range - matching +/- 0.2dB.

dynaudio.com

 

[whoselife]

I basically already use this: Dutch & Dutch 8c speakers are roon endpoints, so my primary listening room consists of the speakers and nothing more (an old laptop in another room is my roon server).

This represents one form factor among many all‑in‑one acoustic systems, and a fairly good one actually. Nevertheless, if we are to nitpick, its electronics and loudspeakers are integrated within a single enclosure, which brings several foreseeable drawbacks.

For instance, when considering how electronics affect the loudspeaker: heat generated by electronics creates instability in the air‑volume model inside the sealed cabinet. Internal cabinet volume must also be partially compromised to accommodate circuit‑board mounting. Furthermore, electronic failure or component aging can render the entire system inoperable, posing significant challenges for maintenance and upgrades.

From the perspective of how loudspeaker assemblies impact the electronics: vibration and electromagnetic fields generated by the loudspeaker can exert certain influences on the circuit boards. Spatial constraints confine the electronic solution within a very limited volume, capping the upper‑bound of its performance and stability. The circuit boards operate under harsh environmental conditions, leading to accelerated ageing and higher failure probability. Subsequent upgrades are not feasible.

One perennial ultimate issue is its prohibitive cost. Even one‑tenth of its price remains out of reach for average enthusiasts. Bringing in more competition, especially from players based in regions with industrial advantages, invariably delivers more options for consumers. I believe this endeavor would be worthwhile if I could contribute even a small part toward this goal.

 

[RexrothPigeon]

from players based in regions with industrial advantages

it is true that manufacturing in the netherlands is expensive and you can save a lot of money and lower prices if you don't care about workers earning a living wage

 

[GXAlan]

リビングのための本気のアクティブスピーカー。ヤマハのホームオーディオ思想の結集、「NX-70A」 - PHILE WEB

リビングのための本気のアクティブスピーカー。ヤマハのホームオーディオ思想の結集、「NX-70A」

www-phileweb-com.translate.goog

https://europe.yamaha.com/en/audio/home-audio/products/speakers/nx-70a/

You can see companies like Yamaha entering the space too. 12 lb speaker.

NX-70A | Specifications

manual.yamaha.com

 

[maelstr0m99]

I probably wouldn't consider one, because I don't like having a plate amp right next to my transducer, high wattage (1k+) active never made sense to me, because heat mitigation is one of the formost design criteria for a large transducer putting work in, sure lets just pack the amp and all its fine electrical components and heat right up against more heat and then all the vibrations.... seems idiotic. I guess lots of highend active systems are neo and cooled much better, but I still don't see how over time the heat and vibrations, will weaken the plate amp, and lead to more power compression/less than ideal power handling of the woofer. Hifi sure whatever I guess, still would rather have ability to tune for different types of music instead of black box no touchy. I also think passive crossovers are inferior

 

[RexrothPigeon]

still would rather have ability to tune for different types of music

why would that be precluded? my speakers have built-in amps and it's trivially easy for me to tune them (and to have multiple presets if I want)