I’m fairly computer literate. Decades of experience from punch-card programming to DOS, Windows, OSX, Linux,…. I made a living using software. But my view of computers is a love/hate thing. I use one as a Roon server, and other than that, I would never use a computer as a piece of audio equipment. True, modern DSP devices are computer based, but they are closed systems, and very reliable. For me audio/video equipment should be appliances that always turn on, and do the same thing they did the last time. When you sit down to listen to an audio system, you don’t want to have to do a reboot, download new firmware, update software, unplug it and plug it back in,….
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Would you buy a software pre/pro?
- Thread starter skankhobag
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OP
skankhobag
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The other issue is that I don’t want to create another media player… and I don’t want a media player. There’s probably too many already.
I’m going to throw down on the players Dolby and DTS make. It’s what the studios use.
I just want pre/pro software that allows me to take any software source, process it and port it to any hardware I can hook up to a Mac.
In this case, I’m looking at all the audio processing (no, not the crazy 3D stuff Trinnov does) that a $30k pre/pro does with no limitations, period. On top of that, I want video sync and FIR filters for the active loudspeakers I’m designing.
Finally, I don’t to be locked into a hardware or a software platform… and, yeah, I want to have this cost me a fraction of the top-line hardware pre/pro’s.
I just need AI that can properly code in Swift. I can do all of the actual product design (since that’s what I do).
I’m going to throw down on the players Dolby and DTS make. It’s what the studios use.
I just want pre/pro software that allows me to take any software source, process it and port it to any hardware I can hook up to a Mac.
In this case, I’m looking at all the audio processing (no, not the crazy 3D stuff Trinnov does) that a $30k pre/pro does with no limitations, period. On top of that, I want video sync and FIR filters for the active loudspeakers I’m designing.
Finally, I don’t to be locked into a hardware or a software platform… and, yeah, I want to have this cost me a fraction of the top-line hardware pre/pro’s.
I just need AI that can properly code in Swift. I can do all of the actual product design (since that’s what I do).
Devnull
Active Member
So you're looking at around 1500 bucks plus whatever for ADC and\or DAC. At that point you're up to the price of some the dedicated hardware software combos that MOTU offers. And not dealing with all the issues that @mglobe mentioned. I'm just not seeing the upside except for a dedicated nerdy hobbyist.
welwynnick
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That would be fine for something that out-performs AVP's costing tens of thousands. The Trinnov isn't without it's niggles, still.
Almost same here. Work in IT, since the days when 64 Kb/s was "high speed"... Started my journey in PBX, from there to "Data Communications" , then IT.. Don't like to use an all purpose PC as an audio component either. Requires much more than "just" dropping a software or plug-in: The underlying OS of your PC, must be customized for the applications and fine-tuned for stability and reliability . for exemple removing the pesky printing applications, libraries and the plethora of (for these particular puposes) useless plug and play middleware for various peripherals ... .. These aren't a given, and require a level of knowledge and understanding of OS few possess.
In my view present AVRs, especially those from those from Denon/Marantz... are powerful enough for DSP and other Audio-related tasks and their stability is proven. They just work. e.g beginning with the X3800 (IMO, since it is the first to have pre-out for all channels..) , you have very powerful DSP engines with enough inputs and outputs to handle the grandest HT or 2-Ch audio system, with some judicious add-ons. Audyssey MultEQ-X, Dirac Suite, @OCA scripts... Those can transform a system from "meh" to quasi-endgame.. of course with a complement of suitable speakers and , IMO, subwoofers... These days .. there are many choices and at sane price levels...
I have used Jriver in place of a multichannel preamp for more than 10 years and it really can do everything that I need, especially with its facilitation of VST plug-ins. Once one achieves a stable setup, it (and the host) run 24/7 and updates install transparently.
I'll acknowledge the issues with their support but I have adapted to it. And, yes, to the on-screen presentation, as well. The need for substantial improvements in both do impede general acceptance, and while I would welcome that, its control and configuration option excede the constraints of hardware alternatives.
That said, if the OP can do better, I'm in.
OP
skankhobag
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It sounds like Jriver is trying to be too many things without having its user experience and interface design fully thought out. Most likely, it was designed by software engineers which means it works, but it’s a nightmare to use.
I’ve run into this many times as a designer and software user.
Any product design where you have to adjust to illogical process flows and information architecture is a pretty lousy design.
So, the basic concept;
• Accepts input from any media player
• Supports any audio channel layout
• Multi-channel, 3 band parametric EQ (for media playback… not everything is mastered well)
• Bass management
• Individual channel EQs
• Linear phase crossover filters for creating active speakers
• VST/AU plugin inserts for upmixing, spatial audio, Hafler circuit, time alignment, reverb processing and loudspeaker/room correction
• Latency compensation for synchronization of video to audio (if not available in the player)
• Presets for everything
At present, I’d have to us Apple Mainstage and a bunch of plugins to do this. It will work perfectly, but it’s not ideal.
Output from the Mac Mini would be to a MOTU 112D AES interface that would feed DACs for the active front channels/subs and Hypex Fusion amp active surrounds.
Obviously, this is not going to be a small project.
Yes, Who? Where?
What?
90sNintendoKid
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I would buy one if it had a hdmi eARC input, decode Atmos, low latency and upmix/downmix to my channel setup.
My answer to OPs question is no. I place higher merit to my time so don’t have it to fiddle with computers.
Been there done that but nowadays just enjoy the box that has it all taken care of and it simply works. Enough challenges in other areas of life.
Been there done that but nowadays just enjoy the box that has it all taken care of and it simply works. Enough challenges in other areas of life.
TurtlePaul
Major Contributor
I wouldn’t pay $750 for the proposed software in a world where the following are cheap/free REW, EQ APO, EQ settings in just about every playback app, convolver apps, etc. Of course, some people pay for PC Dirac, so there is some market. But getting people to pay real money for settled software is an uphill battle. Much better to bindle with high end hardware.
phoenixdogfan
Major Contributor
I also use JRiver for my 5.1 stereo/surround sound in conjunction with an OCTO Dac 8 Pro. Drawbacks are I can only use streaming services like Netflix, Tidal, Amazon Prime video and only use HDR since my Mele Quieter 3 only renders that and not HDR+ or Dolby Vision. Sound is excellent. I run PEQ, Dirac DLBD and Baach for Windows (for 2 channel stereo). The streaming services also only do Dolby Digital + and no Dolby True HD or Dolby Atmos, but I really no longer wanted to curate a library of vinyl, cd's, DVDs and Blue Ray disks and have a ginormous power hogging AVR receiver so, for me, it's a very good compromise. There has been some progress in Atmos on the PC in that you can decode Atmos if it's Apple content on an Apple Mac, but that is obviously not nearly enough.
BTW, JRiver is not $700, but, depending on the flavor of the license, $60-70, and it does most anything the front end of a 7.1 Surround sound receiver can do, and quite a bit more. Anyone who wants to tackle the steep learning curve will find it a stone cold bargain.
kemmler3D
Master Contributor
My POV on this: a pre/pro isn't worth much to most people unless it handles HDCP and Dolby formats. Leaving the hardware as an exercise for the user is a little questionable too. There are free / cheap DSP tools aplenty for stereo and multichannel is also doable for the knowledgeable and motivated.
The question of providing room correction that competes with Dirac ART and similar is not a small one either.
So given the viable alternatives the real question is "can I charge money for a better interface on a DSP for home users"... ?
Or maybe my question in return is, what's the closest alternative currently and why is your proposed solution better?
The question of providing room correction that competes with Dirac ART and similar is not a small one either.
So given the viable alternatives the real question is "can I charge money for a better interface on a DSP for home users"... ?
Or maybe my question in return is, what's the closest alternative currently and why is your proposed solution better?
phoenixdogfan
Major Contributor
Used that one as well, don't anymore because DLBC is employed instead. To me it seems like a good alternative. Price is certainly right. Only real issue AFIAC is it lacks a WDM driver, but, used in conjunction with JRiver, you can employ JRiver's WDM, and do any processing like PEQ there, and pass the signal via Dephonica's Asio Sink driver to the Dephonica crossover. The use case is for two channel, however. But for that Dephonica can pretty much create whatever you might want. For multichannel, I would just use the bass management in JRiver to cross over to the LFE channel and leave Dephonica out of it.
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