Would you buy a software pre/pro?

[skankhobag]

Here’s the thing: hardware pre/pros (in fact almost all of them) are nothing, but specialized computers with audio I/O.

I understand the necessity of these products since not everyone wants to use a “computer”, but all the high end processors have very complex operating systems that require a computer to setup.

So, if you are comfortable using software and want everything a $35,000 pre/pro offers, would you pay $750 for a piece of software that allowed you to turn a $600 Mac Mini into the heart of a world-class home theater system?

We’re talking all the functionality including room correction. I/O hardware would be suggested, but offer both flexibility and modularity to suit whatever you preferred.

Even the room/speaker correction software could be chosen independently.

All you then need is to choose your I/O hardware. Configuration would be given in presets or custom configuration options created by the user.

So, again, software that would provide a way for intrepid audiophiles to assemble a world leading home theater system built around a configurable software framework that has no dependence upon hardware other than Mac hardware.

The only limiting factor would be the fact that it’s meant to play files from a local HD/SSN and streaming app. Playback from a BD/DVD/CD would have to be sorted later.

I design software for a living. AI says it can do all the Swift app coding (or such). We’ll see.

Given that, this is a DIY project that could obviate the need for even the most expensive pre/pro (except the one with the crazy 3D microphone).

So… your thoughts?

 

[dziemian]

I would be interested for sure but you need to integrate video and music, add atmos decoding, deal with audio/video latency. The cost of licenses alone would be substancial I guess.

 

[pderousse]

I used to have an HTPC in my room and was eternally frustrated by the incessant updates that broke this or that setting, ground loops, pop-ups, virus bloatware needed to run a PC connected to the internet, etc. Things changed for the better when I purchased microRendu streamer - it did just music well. Without seeing what what is on offer, it is difficult to reply, but generally, I think this is trick: simplify the device to the point that it does just AV and you will have a hit, but now we're talking hardware too, not just software. Most people do not want to futz with the thing, even if maybe they can.

 

[voodooless]

Sure, I would buy a unicorn for cheap… that also is never going to happen…

 

[ppataki]

Here’s the thing: hardware pre/pros (in fact almost all of them) are nothing, but specialized computers with audio I/O.

I understand the necessity of these products since not everyone wants to use a “computer”, but all the high end processors have very complex operating systems that require a computer to setup.

So, if you are comfortable using software and want everything a $35,000 pre/pro offers, would you pay $750 for a piece of software that allowed you to turn a $600 Mac Mini into the heart of a world-class home theater system?

We’re talking all the functionality including room correction. I/O hardware would be suggested, but offer both flexibility and modularity to suit whatever you preferred.

Even the room/speaker correction software could be chosen independently.

All you then need is to choose your I/O hardware. Configuration would be given in presets or custom configuration options created by the user.

So, again, software that would provide a way for intrepid audiophiles to assemble a world leading home theater system built around a configurable software framework that has no dependence upon hardware other than Mac hardware.

The only limiting factor would be the fact that it’s meant to play files from a local HD/SSN and streaming app. Playback from a BD/DVD/CD would have to be sorted later.

I design software for a living. AI says it can do all the Swift app coding (or such). We’ll see.

Given that, this is a DIY project that could obviate the need for even the most expensive pre/pro (except the one with the crazy 3D microphone).

So… your thoughts?

This 'problem' has already been solved 20+ years ago
Just use a PC/Mac with Jriver and you are done (+ you can use tons of VST plugins if you wish)
Dolby Atmos won't work - that is the only drawback
But you can have 7.X channels and far superior sound and DSP quality than any commercial pre/pro
I have been using a PC for audio since 1996 and for audio/video since 2000.

 

[solderdude]

Most of the cost for a world class immersive system would go in the hardware.
Room conditioning, amplifiers, speakers, screen etc.
The price of software is but small in comparison and does not need to cost $35k to do some room correction and some multichannel decoding.
That software will have options that aren't needed for immersive audio reproduction.
I mean just to touch up some photos you don't need pro-photoshop program but can get by with online-AI generated stuff or something like Gimp.
For measuring rooms and correcting speakers there already is the free REW software etc.

World leading immersive sound starts with a good room, good speakers that can handle a wide dynamic range and a bunch of powerful amps.

Take the solution from @Weeb Labs with his few $ pi thingy.

 

[Keith_W]

May I suggest that you design around something CamillaDSP? Let Camilla do all the DSP. Then all you need to do is design some add-ons, such as:

- video delay / lip sync compensation
- Atmos or 5.1 decoding if you can afford the license fees.
- An interface to make switching hardware outputs or modes easy.
- A remote control solution of some kind. Preferably hotkey based and has a web interface.

 

[Littletycoon]

Here’s the thing: hardware pre/pros (in fact almost all of them) are nothing, but specialized computers with audio I/O.

I understand the necessity of these products since not everyone wants to use a “computer”, but all the high end processors have very complex operating systems that require a computer to setup.

So, if you are comfortable using software and want everything a $35,000 pre/pro offers, would you pay $750 for a piece of software that allowed you to turn a $600 Mac Mini into the heart of a world-class home theater system?

We’re talking all the functionality including room correction. I/O hardware would be suggested, but offer both flexibility and modularity to suit whatever you preferred.

Even the room/speaker correction software could be chosen independently.

All you then need is to choose your I/O hardware. Configuration would be given in presets or custom configuration options created by the user.

So, again, software that would provide a way for intrepid audiophiles to assemble a world leading home theater system built around a configurable software framework that has no dependence upon hardware other than Mac hardware.

The only limiting factor would be the fact that it’s meant to play files from a local HD/SSN and streaming app. Playback from a BD/DVD/CD would have to be sorted later.

I design software for a living. AI says it can do all the Swift app coding (or such). We’ll see.

Given that, this is a DIY project that could obviate the need for even the most expensive pre/pro (except the one with the crazy 3D microphone).

So… your thoughts?.

Who would not be interested? But for the average consumer it would still be too much hassle, therefore such solution would relatively niche (i.e. for the ones who pay dearly for such hardware based solutions now).

 

[welwynnick]

Here’s the thing: hardware pre/pros (in fact almost all of them) are nothing, but specialized computers with audio I/O..............
Given that, this is a DIY project that could obviate the need for even the most expensive pre/pro (except the one with the crazy 3D microphone).
So… your thoughts?

Would I be interested in a software AVP? Absolutely I would!
I speculated about the possibility of this a year or so ago, having realised that recording studios have been using moderately priced, high performance multi-channel converters for many years. There are lots of different interfaces, but the interface hardware is all there.

https://www.avforums.com/threads/av-processors-with-a-digital-output.2326976/post-32453863

There are lots of questions to address, though:
What are your sources? Streaming? File playback? Disc playback? Blu-ray is the best source, but I don't think you can play 4k BDs on Windows 11 PCs.
How do you do Dolby & DTS decoding?
How do you do immersive audio rendering?
How do you do digital room correction (there are lots of solutions to this already - see Keith W's threads)?
How do you do volume control without compromising fidelity?
How do you maintain audio/video synchronisation?

I've been pondering all this for a while, and one product was an idealised multi-channel digital audio replay architecture :

 

[101geo]

May I suggest that you design around something CamillaDSP? Let Camilla do all the DSP. Then all you need to do is design some add-ons, such as:

- video delay / lip sync compensation
- Atmos or 5.1 decoding if you can afford the license fees.
- An interface to make switching hardware outputs or modes easy.
- A remote control solution of some kind. Preferably hotkey based and has a web interface.

Why hasn't anyone built a "MiniDSP GUI style" for the CamillaDSP engine yet?

CamillaDSP is one of the most powerful, flexible DSP engines available today, but let’s be honest: the learning curve is a vertical cliff for non-experts. On the flip side, MiniDSP owns the market because of its "plug-and-play" user experience, despite being locked to proprietary (and limited) hardware.

I feel like there’s a massive opening for a "Goldilocks" solution: the raw, hardware-agnostic power of CamillaDSP wrapped in a high-level, visual UI that bypasses the YAML/ALSA complexity.
Is the "barrier to entry" actually what keeps CamillaDSP lean? or are we overdue for a software layer that makes high-end DSP accessible to the average audiophile?

 

[voodooless]

Why hasn't anyone built a "MiniDSP GUI style" for the CamillaDSP engine yet?

Several people already have...

 

[101geo]

Several people already have...

Who? Where?

 

[skankhobag]

This 'problem' has already been solved 20+ years ago
Just use a PC/Mac with Jriver and you are done (+ you can use tons of VST plugins if you wish)
Dolby Atmos won't work - that is the only drawback
But you can have 7.X channels and far superior sound and DSP quality than any commercial pre/pro
I have been using a PC for audio since 1996 and for audio/video since 2000.

Already looked into Jriver and it’s really just a media player and doesn’t offer bass management, FIR crossovers, upmixing, etc.

 

[ppataki]

Already looked into Jriver and it’s really just a media player and doesn’t offer bass management, FIR crossovers, upmixing, etc.

It does offer bass management, upmixing, downmixing and way more too

For FIR you can use VST plugins (literally hundreds are available)

 

[proud]

So, if you are comfortable using software and want everything a $35,000 pre/pro offers, would you pay $750 for a piece of software that allowed you to turn a $600 Mac Mini into the heart of a world-class home theater system?

Just type in the search HQPlayer...

 

[dziemian]

I use Jriver for music and video with Dirac Live plugin. You can uae any FIR filters with vst plugins. Well you can even import Minidsp biquads made with REW. Routing, upmixing, downmixing and many more

 

[Keith_W]

The big failure with JRiver is lack of support for streaming. If you want to watch Netflix, Amazon Prime, etc. you can forget about the lip sync feature.

 

[ppataki]

The big failure with JRiver is lack of support for streaming. If you want to watch Netflix, Amazon Prime, etc. you can forget about the lip sync feature.

That is only true if you use linear phase filters
With minimum phase filters there is no lipsync issue at all (for me at least)

Actually even with linear phase filters you can make it work to an acceptable level

 

[skankhobag]

It does offer bass management, upmixing, downmixing and way more too

For FIR you can use VST plugins (literally hundreds are available)

With all due respect, how, exactly, would the average person learn any of this?

Use their wiki? Rummage through their forum? They’ve had the exact same web site for over a decade. It sucked in 2014 and hasn’t gotten better with age.

They don’t even show screenshots of their product.

Not to bust your stones, but one visit to their site in 2014 wasn’t enough to make me throw down for their software. Seeing the exact same website today gives me no confidence in their product.

I remember this distinctly because I am a designer and thought their online presence was a POS 12 years ago. Very sad that they’ve stuck with something so bad for so long.

 

[ppataki]

With all due respect, how, exactly, would the average person learn any of this?

Use their wiki? Rummage through their forum? They’ve had the exact same web site for over a decade. It sucked in 2014 and hasn’t gotten better with age.

They don’t even show screenshots of their product.

Not to bust your stones, but one visit to their site in 2014 wasn’t enough to make me throw down for their software. Seeing the exact same website today gives me no confidence in their product.

I remember this distinctly because I am a designer and thought their online presence was a POS 12 years ago. Very sad that they’ve stuck with something so bad for so long.

Yes I agree with your points - I am also sick of their '''''support'''' and how the design looks like

But on the other hand, if one takes time and effort to start using their product, it actually works and does everything you would need (except for Atmos)