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Would really appreciate some knowledgeable ASR opinions on the quality of amplification in the Yamaha A-S701 vs RX V2700

Hotwetrat

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My speakers are a nightmare at 4OHM and 86db sensitivity. I have both of these amps at the moment and unsure which is a better option for driving my speakers in a 2.1 setup.

Anyone who has noticed my previous posts will know I am absolutely delighted with the Topping and Yamaha A-S701 combo with my speakers and subs. That being said I have this RX V2700 which while old, was once quite a decent bit of kit according to audioholics, and I can't figure out which amp would be better to get the most out of my speakers. Both amps are set to 8 OHMS. I would only use the 2700 with optical in like my A-S701.

1) Source to Topping E30 to Yamaha A-S701, Dali Opticon 1 MK2 speakers and 2x SB1000 Pro subs.

2) Source to Yamaha RX V2700, Dali Opticon 1 MK2 and 2x SB1000 Pro subs.

Obviously switching these amps out takes far too much time to hope to get even a subjective idea (and I would not trust myself at all unless it was GLARING) never mind it's the polar opposite of blind and level matched!

Here is some info on the amps from the respected audioholics;

A S801 https://www.audioholics.com/amplifi...1-amplifier-review/yamaha-a-s801-measurements (damping factor stated on Yamaha website as 240, not measured in the review it seems)

RV X2700 https://www.audioholics.com/av-rece...ver-review/rx-v2700-measurements-and-analysis (damping facttor not stated anywhere but measured in the review, seems pretty weak :/ )

The 2700 I would be using the Burr Brown dacs included vs the E30.

I could tell you what I think I hear, but I don't trust myself even slightly and thought I might get a more technical reason for one being a better option than the other. Obviously the 2700 has decent PEQ and Bass management options and with a manually set crossover of say 80hz would spare the amp section and my speakers of producing a full range signal. My speakers naturally roll off at 62hz I think so use the LPF to meet on the subs with the 701

Well, sorry for the lengthy post but hopefully my dilema is clear, it's probably close but, I'd really love some thoughts on this from people who understand the numbers better than I.

Many thanks.

PS I know that's the 801 but I understand they're the same specially if bypassing the internal dac as I am.
 
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Helicopter

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What are the speakers?

How big is the room?

What is the listening distance?

Probably doesn't matter much. An 80Hz HPF should make the amp's life pretty easy. I would use the 701 because it looks prettier.
 

AdamG247

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What are the speakers?

How big is the room?

What is the listening distance?

Probably doesn't matter much. An 80Hz HPF should make the amp's life pretty easy. I would use the 701 because it looks prettier.
He already posted his speakers: Dali Opticon 1 MK2 speakers and 2x SB1000 Pro subs.

Seating distance from speakers remains unknown. From a pure spec perspective I think the 2700 has more amps available under a 4 ohm load.
 

Helicopter

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He already posted his speakers: Dali Opticon 1 MK2 speakers and 2x SB1000 Pro subs.

Seating distance from speakers remains unknown. From a pure spec perspective I think the 2700 has more amps available under a 4 ohm load.
Agree the AVR is probably a little more gutsy. 140w rated vs 120 for the 701. Since they're both Yamaha, probably some level of standardization in the ratings. With bookshelf speakers crossed pretty high and the subs doing most of the work, I doubt it will matter in any typical room / distance. I have a 5.1 Yamaha like that AVR in my basement workbench system, and it seems to run cool and have a ton of power. I doubt I have had the volume half way up.
 
OP
Hotwetrat

Hotwetrat

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Thanks a lot for the replies gentlemen it's appreciated.

Sorry room is small-medium and I don't listen loud. low to moderate. listening distance is 2-3m.

Any considerations about the DACS and undisclosed damping factor? Strikes me Damping Factor has been oe of the biggest mysteries in casual consumer audio until I came here and heard about it for the first time, ever.

Cheers.
 

Helicopter

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Thanks a lot for the replies gentlemen it's appreciated.

Sorry room is small-medium and I don't listen loud. low to moderate. listening distance is 2-3m.

Any considerations about the DACS and undisclosed damping factor?

Cheers.
I wouldn't worry about it. In this use case, I really doubt any audible differences will matter. I would do option 1 for philosophical reasons. Topping has great specs, and the 701 has a much prettier case and is cleanly designed for a stereo setup.
 
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Hotwetrat

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Thanks plenty. Aesthetics is not even on my list.

I went back n forth again and I SWEAR the receiver is 'softer' - like quite distinctly. This is with just the speakers, no subs, both amps in CD direct/Pure direct.
23 seconds into the same song.

I just can't swap fast enough..... It's an absolute menace.

Like, I feel so sure the receiver sounds mushier, or shall we say, less clean edges?? And softer at the top :/ and less PUNCH at the low end.. Just softer!! Again, I am also painfully aware this is probably absolute tosh. I'm trying to be aware and objective within the limitations of the method I am using.

I simply can't swap fast enough. :mad:

You know if I could swap fast enough and say well I can't hear a difference I'd be happy enough lol but ...:mad::mad::mad::mad:
 

Beershaun

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I checked the specs on the Yamaha website.
The as701 is rated down to 2ohms. (290w)

Minimum RMS Output Power (8 ohms, 20 Hz-20 kHz)100 W + 100 W (0.019% THD)High

Dynamic Power/Channel (8/6/4/2 ohms)140 / 170 / 220 / 290 W


And they advertise a stout power supply and capacitors. So seems like that should do well.

  • Custom-made power transformer / 12,000uF block capacitors / extruded aluminum heat sinks

https://shop.usa.yamaha.com/en/a-s701-integrated-stereo-amplifier.html
 
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Hotwetrat

Hotwetrat

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I checked the specs on the Yamaha website.
The as701 is rated down to 2ohms. (290w)

Minimum RMS Output Power (8 ohms, 20 Hz-20 kHz)100 W + 100 W (0.019% THD)High

Dynamic Power/Channel (8/6/4/2 ohms)140 / 170 / 220 / 290 W


And they advertise a stout power supply and capacitors. So seems like that should do well.

  • Custom-made power transformer / 12,000uF block capacitors / extruded aluminum heat sinks

https://shop.usa.yamaha.com/en/a-s701-integrated-stereo-amplifier.html

Cheers yeah it's a solid piece of kit unquestionably.

Great info about the psu and caps I knew nothing about that
 

Beershaun

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Hmm. Interesting the spec for theA-S701 on their website states 220w into 4ohms. I wonder if the THD limit is different in the test compared to their spec? While I can't read the language the article states 128w into 8ohms and 130w into 4 ohms. So something is wrong there. Typically the power doubles when the resistance is halved.
 

gsp1971

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Hmm. Interesting the spec for theA-S701 on their website states 220w into 4ohms. I wonder if the THD limit is different in the test compared to their spec? While I can't read the language the article states 128w into 8ohms and 130w into 4 ohms. So something is wrong there. Typically the power doubles when the resistance is halved.

Usually yes, but not always, it depends on the design. NAD very often produce amps where the power is almost the same @ 8Ω and @ 4Ω.
Example:
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...surements-of-nad-c-320bee-pwr-amplifier.8504/

Some multi-channel AVRs even output less power at 4Ω than 8Ω when measured over 2ch.
 
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Hotwetrat

Hotwetrat

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Do you think the RX V2700 is SO OLD, it came from a time where dacs were 'tuned' or coloured in a specific way so as to have a particular 'sonic signature' ?

Basically, an old school audiophoole would probably describe the sound as 'smooth' and 'warm' lol.

I feel for transparency the A S701 and E30 combo wins hands down, buuuut as I said, I can't do a proper test not even close.

Audiophiles say 'trust your ears' and I say absolutely DO NOT TRUST YOUR EARS lol.

If you hear a difference that's totally fine but then it must be checked and verified with removing all psychological factors and confirming with at least DECENT testing methods to isolate and identify what is the reason.

This is what I have learnt here.

Purpose of my OP was to take a look at the specs and paperwork and theorize..... Um.. Not that anybody asked. :)
 
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gsp1971

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I am on a steep learning curve myself and I don't have the engineering knowledge to tell which component within the amplifier or DAC makes the sound 'warm' or 'cold'. I cannot understand how a DAC or amp can be tuned to sound 'warm' unless, for example, it produces significant even-order harmonic distortion which has been proven to be 'pleasing' to the ear (like many tube amps do). But it is still distortion so we are moving away from 'transparency'.
From what I have learnt so far, two amps should not sound any different provided they operate below their clipping (distortion limits) and that any distortion / noise they introduce to the signal is below the audibility threshold.
Hence, given both amps satisfy the above, I would choose the amp which offers more power.
 

nemanja_t

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Hotwetrat

Hotwetrat

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I am on a steep learning curve myself and I don't have the engineering knowledge to tell which component within the amplifier or DAC makes the sound 'warm' or 'cold'. I cannot understand how a DAC or amp can be tuned to sound 'warm' unless, for example, it produces significant even-order harmonic distortion which has been proven to be 'pleasing' to the ear (like many tube amps do). But it is still distortion so we are moving away from 'transparency'.
From what I have learnt so far, two amps should not sound any different provided they operate below their clipping (distortion limits) and that any distortion / noise they introduce to the signal is below the audibility threshold.
Hence, given both amps satisfy the above, I would choose the amp which offers more power.

Thanks for the reply and yeah I think that's probably the best option and tbh I am convinced any differences I am hearing are entirely psychological. I can't even swap fast enough to tell much of anything.

Just speculating really, as the Burr Brown DAC vs Topping, are likely the biggest discrepancies here.... Or maybe damping factor, that one is a real concern to me.

Obviously the Topping is more transparent and just better all around.
 
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