• WANTED: Happy members who like to discuss audio and other topics related to our interest. Desire to learn and share knowledge of science required. There are many reviews of audio hardware and expert members to help answer your questions. Click here to have your audio equipment measured for free!

Would it be bad to do in wall surrounds and exterior LCR speakers for a 5.1.4 setup? If not, what are some recommendations of speakers?

clipghost

Member
Joined
Oct 31, 2022
Messages
32
Likes
3
Would it be bad to do in wall surrounds and exterior LCR speakers for a 5.1.4 setup? If not, what are some recommendations of speakers that would be good for this?

I am currently looking at the Monoprice THX line with 365IW for surrounds and the 365T or L/R/ and 365C for the center.

Would this plan work? Or am I asking for trouble?

Thank you!
 

Holmz

Major Contributor
Joined
Oct 3, 2021
Messages
2,018
Likes
1,241
Location
Australia
Would it be bad to do in wall surrounds and exterior LCR speakers for a 5.1.4 setup? If not, what are some recommendations of speakers that would be good for this?

The surrounds and center channel, atmos and surrounds, should all have the same timbre as the L/R speakers.
So you should not mix 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and 4th order cross over speakers, etc.
 

alex-z

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Joined
Feb 19, 2021
Messages
910
Likes
1,684
Location
Canada
The surrounds and center channel, atmos and surrounds, should all have the same timbre as the L/R speakers.
So you should not mix 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and 4th order cross over speakers, etc.

That makes zero sense. The crossover topology of a speaker is one of the least relevant things when it comes to timbre.

What you hear in-room is a combination of the on-axis response and directivity. It is possible to build two speakers with wildly different crossovers and drivers that still sound similar, and it is equally possible to use identical crossover slopes and have two totally different sounding speakers, just by varying details like baffle dimensions.
 

Webninja

Senior Member
Forum Donor
Joined
Oct 8, 2018
Messages
419
Likes
468
Location
Los Angeles
I have on wall surrounds, in ceiling Atmos and freestanding LCR.

Sounds great for music and movies. You do have to plan the room, sitting positions and try for optimum placements.

The in wall will have no flexibility in moving a speaker if you rearrange your couch.

I spent way too long with Dolby recommended placements and calculating angles, heights and placements for my 7.4, but I knew I could only adjust the LCR after the wiring and mounting.
 

Holmz

Major Contributor
Joined
Oct 3, 2021
Messages
2,018
Likes
1,241
Location
Australia
That makes zero sense. The crossover topology of a speaker is one of the least relevant things when it comes to timbre.
...

If the main L/R has one set up, and the surrounds has a different crossover set up… then we start adding things together different phase asd we move through the frequency range.



What you hear in-room is a combination of the on-axis response and directivity. It is possible to build two speakers with wildly different crossovers and drivers that still sound similar, and it is equally possible to use identical crossover slopes and have two totally different sounding speakers, just by varying details like baffle dimensions.

^Correct^, and the on-axis response is either totally in phas or varies throughout the band.
We can have the exact same PSD, but if we take the LHS of speaker pair-A and the RHS of speaker pair-B, then it will not sound like a well balanced stereo pair.

I would make sure that they are designed to “play together”…


Would it be bad to do in wall surrounds and exterior LCR speakers for a 5.1.4 setup? If not, what are some recommendations of speakers that would be good for this?

I am currently looking at the Monoprice THX line with 365IW for surrounds and the 365T or L/R/ and 365C for the center.

Would this plan work? Or am I asking for trouble?

Thank you!

I would be putting the ensemble in the room, on say step stools or boxes slide to the position and trying it.
Before a return policy expires.

But if they are all part of a Monoprice range, then you “should be” fine.
 

JonK99

Member
Joined
Jan 20, 2022
Messages
41
Likes
89
Keep in mind that in a 5.x.x arrangement the surround speakers are supposed to be placed at an angle so if they are in-wall you won't be able to point them towards your listening position and will be listening to them off-axis, so you'd want to verify the horizontal dispersion of the speakers you're considering.
 
OP
C

clipghost

Member
Joined
Oct 31, 2022
Messages
32
Likes
3
Keep in mind that in a 5.x.x arrangement the surround speakers are supposed to be placed at an angle so if they are in-wall you won't be able to point them towards your listening position and will be listening to them off-axis, so you'd want to verify the horizontal dispersion of the speakers you're considering.
I don't really understand the logistics of all this. But I am currently looking at the Monoprice THX line with 365IW for surrounds and the 365T or L/R and 365C for the center. I can move around the LCR obviously....but yes the surrounds will be stuck in the wall.

Could the receivers calibration help with this? Like Dirac or Audyssey?
 

Webninja

Senior Member
Forum Donor
Joined
Oct 8, 2018
Messages
419
Likes
468
Location
Los Angeles
You can see the surrounds are angled towards the MLP.

Some in wall have the ability to swivel the tweeter, and that could help.

 

Attachments

  • 1667669332591.jpeg
    1667669332591.jpeg
    26 KB · Views: 59

Holmz

Major Contributor
Joined
Oct 3, 2021
Messages
2,018
Likes
1,241
Location
Australia
I don't really understand the logistics of all this. But I am currently looking at the Monoprice THX line with 365IW for surrounds and the 365T or L/R and 365C for the center. I can move around the LCR obviously....but yes the surrounds will be stuck in the wall.

If they are coaxials, then they may throw a wide radiation pattern (like a sawed off shotgun).
In a 5.x.x the rear speakers are pretty close fore/aft in the room relative to the sofa, so you are close to being on axis.

If you look at them in the wall and they are not aiming at you, then I would worry.
Like if they are on the back wall, and they look more like a skinny ogive than a circle.
You probably want to be within 20-30 degrees of “On Axis”, so looking t down the throat of them.



Could the receivers calibration help with this? Like Dirac or Audyssey?

That will only level them, SPL wise, to the seated position.
They do not make a shotgun radiation pattern out of a laser beam radiation pattern.
 
Last edited:

Holmz

Major Contributor
Joined
Oct 3, 2021
Messages
2,018
Likes
1,241
Location
Australia
That makes zero sense. The crossover topology of a speaker is one of the least relevant things when it comes to timbre.

What you hear in-room is a combination of the on-axis response and directivity. It is possible to build two speakers with wildly different crossovers and drivers that still sound similar, and it is equally possible to use identical crossover slopes and have two totally different sounding speakers, just by varying details like baffle dimensions.

Maybe we can get someone who understand this stuff to opine on it?
I am pretty sure that if the step function response is going opposite directions between speaker A and speaker B, they they will not play well together.

Which means that an XO with LR-12 and different XO with a butterworth 18, or LR24 or something else… may not play well together.

Maybe @René - Acculution.com is the right person to opine… He gives me the impression that he understands the phase of the field produced by a speaker and also XOs… So I am hopeful… I know if he cannot adjudicate whether it’s cause for concern, then I am less likely to.
 

René - Acculution.com

Senior Member
Technical Expert
Joined
May 1, 2021
Messages
416
Likes
1,221
I am not sure I have can give any meaningul answer. Changing something like XOers will change the sound field, but I can not say how it will change the sound. Some people say you can hear cables, and I am wondering if they would even notice a wrong polarity on their center speaker (an interesting test to run). This is why I stick to signal processing and physics.
 

Holmz

Major Contributor
Joined
Oct 3, 2021
Messages
2,018
Likes
1,241
Location
Australia
I am not sure I have can give any meaningul answer. Changing something like XOers will change the sound field, but I can not say how it will change the sound. Some people say you can hear cables, and I am wondering if they would even notice a wrong polarity on their center speaker (an interesting test to run). This is why I stick to signal processing and physics.
If the dialogue was coming out of the front sides and the middle at the same level then would it be somewhat like having the left front channel in reverse polarity and the right front channel in normal (in a two channel system)? (I think)
That would expect that make for a defocussed sound ?


Thanks @René - Acculution.com

It was mostly about have two different XO designs, playing at the same time, out of say 2 pairs of speakers.
… like if I have a front speaker with one XO and phase versus time behaviour, then does having a surround with a different XO and phase versus time behaviour cause them to cancel or reinforce in way that is not constant across the frequency band?

In my case, I did not want to risk it, so I got surrounds designed to play with the mains speakers.
 

René - Acculution.com

Senior Member
Technical Expert
Joined
May 1, 2021
Messages
416
Likes
1,221
As long as it is not within the same pair, then it is probably not too bad. If the two pairs are different in overall driver setup and/or have different xover frequencies, then I would probably not bother with which order each pair is. But for peace of mind, it is probably a good idea to have similar speakers. Again, it is not really my field at all.
 

René - Acculution.com

Senior Member
Technical Expert
Joined
May 1, 2021
Messages
416
Likes
1,221
Thanks mate!
Your input is certainly appreciated.

And…
I am glad you said “field”, and didn’t say it “was not your signal” :oops:
Haha, yes. One more post with 'square waves' and I might explode ;-) I am actually very nice in person (I think). Not sure that comes across at all in my posts though.
 

Holmz

Major Contributor
Joined
Oct 3, 2021
Messages
2,018
Likes
1,241
Location
Australia
I really enjoyed your mention of the difference between “signal” and “field” in your youtube.
Obviously I paid a bit of attention to be able to quote it :cool:


Haha, yes. One more post with 'square waves' and I might explode ;-) I am actually very nice in person (I think). Not sure that comes across at all in my posts though.

I must be a bit of a square, as I like square wave response graphs.


It is hard to tell if you are nice or not.
But you certainly come across as thoughtful and reasoned, and staying well within your lane, and not prone to guessing.
I appreciate that lack of speculation, and it is refreshing to see in the era of internet experts (myself included).
I am certainly looking forwards to your future work and any videos… the last one on phase and XOs, was pretty packed with info, in a good way.

You could be mean as all hell, but you’re easy to like.
The Aussie expression is, ”the fellow makes it difficult to not like him.”
(And yes… they use a lot of double negatives.)

And you have been very generous with your time and knowledge, so that is a nicety.,, and nice applies.


In self reflection…
Since you don’t know for sure technically, I am thinking maybe I speculated a bit too much in post #2…


Wishing you a good upcoming holiday season.
$_12.JPG
 
Last edited:

René - Acculution.com

Senior Member
Technical Expert
Joined
May 1, 2021
Messages
416
Likes
1,221
I really enjoyed your mention of the difference between “signal” and “field” in your youtube.
Obviously I paid a bit of attention to be able to quote it :cool:




I must be a bit of a square, as I like square wave response graphs.


It is hard to tell if you are nice or not.
But you certainly come across as thoughtful and reasoned, and staying well within your lane, and not prone to guessing.
I appreciate that lack of speculation, and it is refreshing to see in the era of internet experts (myself included).
I am certainly looking forwards to your future work and any videos… the last one on phase and XOs, was pretty packed with info, in a good way.

You could be mean as all hell, but you’re easy to like.
The Aussie expression is, ”the fellow makes it difficult to not like him.”
(And yes… they use a lot of double negatives.)

And you have been very generous with your time and knowledge, so that is a nicety.,, and nice applies.


In self reflection…
Since you don’t know for sure technically, I am thinking maybe I speculated a bit too much in post #2…


Wishing you a good upcoming holiday season.
Thanks mate, much appreciated. All the best to you too.
 
Top Bottom