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Would an external DAC add sound quality to my system?

sergeauckland

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No need to tread lightly around me, I appreciate your straight forward input.
A 1500 dollar amp seems like overkill in my small living room. It's only a 12'X20' room. From what I've seen, 1500 dollar-plus amps are typically around 80 to 100 watts per channel and more. Seems like anything more than 25 to 35 watts per channel/8ohm would be overkill in such a small room. But maybe you're referring to a 1500 dollar amp for other reasons, not necessarily wattage output.
What amplifier do you have and what size room does it reside in?

I haven't come across that thread yet. I will check it out, thanks.

I'm starting to get that now from comments here......speakers first. I don't why exactly, but I thought the amp would be first and then find speakers to compliment the amp.
Pretty much any amplifier will drive any sensible 'speakers, i.e. those without outrageously low impedance, so choose 'speakers that you like and suit the room, as your existing amp will likely do a decent enough job of driving them.

S
 
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Napalm Tom

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Do a bit of additional research you'll be amazed. These days there is a lot of excellent gear and great advice at your finger tips.
Will do. Also another factor to consider.....is this a long term renewed interest or a passing fad for me. I say that because I'm a former musician, I quit playing the drum years ago. During retirement, renewing interest of my younger years, I also considered investing in a new set of drums. After a few visits at some music shops and demoing their new sets, I eventually lost interest and that urge never returned. If I had jumped financially on what turned out to be a passing fad, I would have an expensive drum set in a spare room collecting dust. So if I did heed Overseas' recommendation to sink 1500 dollars in just the amp, I would wait awhile to make sure this renewed interest in hi-fi is not a passing fad.
 

Overseas

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When I say 1500 bucks worth of an amp, I am thinking of a better use for the existing budget (Emotiva + new DAC).
Where general consensus is: speakers make the most of the sound (agreed).
Where ASR has a very technical approach: all amps measuring the same 'sound' the same (I do not agree). As for the wattage, something like 2x60 w in 8 ohm is absolutely enough, for ex. very expensive line from Yamaha is about 2x90 w.

Try Rotel A11 Tribute for ex or used Yamaha AS1100.
 

DTTOM37

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In my personal opinion- based on subjective experience & objective measurments - the importance of amplifier and DACs are often overstated in relation to speakers, room treatment, subwoofer, room correction & signal source (the recording!) - especially in terms of budget allocation.
Clearly there are losses to be had with badly engineered audio gear, but you won't need to spend excessive money on correctly working speaker and amplifier for a room sized like yours. However, you could do that but perhaps not only for strictly performance related reasons ... ;-)
You could go with an Hypex (NC252) based power amplifier - for example - and a reasonable priced DAC like the SMS D-6 - wich would allow you to control the volume with the D-6's remote or volume button, have Bluetooth available and feed the sub direct from DAC.
Just as one example about how to spend less than 750$ on well performing audio gear - ymmv like the idea of @Overseas - the hobby allows us to achieve goals through different directions.
 

Overseas

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Do you listen to Kef T301 model that were measured and evaluated as very poor on this very forum? If so, no need to worry on the DAC.
 
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Napalm Tom

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Curious, does that integrated amp offer any bass management for your sub?
Not that I'm aware of. I don't know why Emotiva calls it an integrated amp. It's really a 2.1 channel stereo receiver.
Pretty much any amplifier will drive any sensible 'speakers, i.e. those without outrageously low impedance, so choose 'speakers that you like and suit the room, as your existing amp will likely do a decent enough job of driving them.

S
Interesting. So one member here is saying my Emotiva model is "not much of an amp." And another member saying my existing Emotiva amp will likely do a decent enough job. I will focus on the speakers for now, and address whether to get another amp or keep the existing amp, later.
As for the wattage, something like 2x60 w in 8 ohm is absolutely enough, for ex. very expensive line from Yamaha is about 2x90 w. Try Rotel A11 Tribute for ex or used Yamaha AS1100.
I like that Rotel A11. Nice design and low profile, as the Emotiva is also. Low profile would be friendly to my limited entertainment cabinet space.
But that Rotel model is no 1500 dollar amp. Only half that. And it has 10 watts less per channel than my existing amp. Seems like a lateral move, but maybe you're referring to other advantages of that Rotel model that would justify spending an additional 200 dollars over the Emotiva to lose 10 watts per channel. Not that I need it. The Emotiva is sort of overkill by a small margin for my small room. The Emotive volume has yet to see 50%. Only a very few times I have cranked it to 35-40%. My days of cranking volume to rock concert level in my living room are behind me.
You could go with an Hypex (NC252) based power amplifier - for example - and a reasonable priced DAC like the SMS D-6 - wich would allow you to control the volume with the D-6's remote or volume button, have Bluetooth available and feed the sub direct from DAC..
I just searched that Hypex model, certainly in the same price range as the Emotiva. But 150 watts per channel? Don't need that, but I will read up on it some more. Thanks for referral.
Do you listen to Kef T301 model that were measured and evaluated as very poor on this very forum? If so, no need to worry on the DAC.
Yea, I read it. Very disappointing. Returning the amp is a maybe. Returning the KEF's is a definite yes. The DAC idea has been shelved to focus on number one priority - speakers. So I'm pulling up all the speaker review threads on this forum.
 
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Chrispy

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Not that I'm aware of. I don't know why Emotiva calls it an integrated amp. It's really a 2.1 channel stereo receiver.
Good point, is somewhat an odd description

Preamp/DAC/Tuner With Integrated Amplifier​


While I was there, it does have a limited bit, altho fixed at one frequency
  • 1 pair - stereo high-pass outputs; with fixed 90 Hz Linkwitz-Riley high-pass filter.
  • 1 - subwoofer output; with fixed 90 Hz Linkwitz-Riley low-pass filter.
 

Mr. Widget

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I just searched that Hypex model, certainly in the same price range as the Emotiva. But 150 watts per channel? Don't need that...
To your point about this maybe a passing fad, obviously only you will be able to determine that, but as a life long nutter. I feel it is always best to have 10dB of headroom for the best sound. That makes a 150 watt amp a 15 watt amp plus headroom.
Returning the KEF's is a definite yes. The DAC idea has been shelved to focus on number one priority - speakers. So I'm pulling up all the speaker review threads on this forum.
Realize that even though there are real criteria for good sound that can be quantified, shown, and discussed rationally, at the end of the day speaker choice is also a personal thing. You can read Consumer's reports to help you pick out your next car, but for the enthusiast, you need to kick some tires.

If possible, you should try to audition any speakers that seem they might be a likely fit.
 

Sal1950

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There is a review of the older Emotiva DAC which uses the same chip. I would imagine the amp section is the limiting factor in an integrated more so than the Dac chip.

https://audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/measurement-and-review-of-emotiva-dc-1-dac.2306/#:~:text=The Emotiva DAC-1 has,noise spikes at low frequencies.
That's my DAC, I sent in to Amir for testing.
It's still working here, now being used only for driving my headphones from my PC music server.
Great little DAC, a shame most of their other gear seems buggy and troublesome. :(
 

DTTOM37

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I just searched that Hypex model, certainly in the same price range as the Emotiva. But 150 watts per channel? Don't need that, but I will read up on it some more. Thanks for referral.
You are welcome !
As Mr. Widget wrote, there are other denominators than only power output as such, which may have importance for the sound quality of your system. Depending on your preferences factors like low distortion, dynamic range, FR, impedance, noise floor, crosstalk etc. could be the foundation for your decision making as well.
A bit of ecologic footprint, too, perhaps? Efficiency of the Hypex is quite acceptable with 92%, while distortion levels are somewhat excellent at that price point.
Important to say, the Emotiva (even on price close to 600$->Buckeye MP252 -$579.00) offers lots of add-on value like a DAC and the low pass for the sub output, while stopping short of the performance we can see from the Hypex modules. Classic trade off and a personal decision, imho. Owners seems to be happy with it.
I would rather look at fitting speakers than lose my head about the amplifier. Seems to be the weakest link in your system. Looks like a design question. Nonetheless, here is a good selection to start with: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...-recommendations-for-usa-by-sweetchaos.28296/
 
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sergeauckland

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Interesting. So one member here is saying my Emotiva model is "not much of an amp." And another member saying my existing Emotiva amp will likely do a decent enough job. I will focus on the speakers for now, and address whether to get another amp or keep the existing amp, later.
Simply because the Emotiva unit is perfectly adequate for transparency. Test results (HiFi News) measured 2x63W into 8 ohms, 2x95W into 4 ohms, so decent enough. Distortion at 0.01% so completely inaudible. Noise also low enough to be completely inaudible into sensible loudspeakers. It may not be State of the Art, but then it doesn't need to be.

S.
 

Overseas

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Subjectively, if it were my money, I would have gotten a big brand amp for the money. Otherwise, I listen both to AS1100 and to Aiyima A07, they both drive speakers 'decently' but there is also sufficiebt audible difference between them. FOR ME.
 

Byrdsmaniac

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I am not sure I would agree with every DAC... but yes, virtually all of them are sonically similar to the point of appearing to sound identical. Features like streaming, built in preamp capabilities, and DSP features like Dirac are what differentiates them.

If you feel you need to improve your system, look at your speakers and the possibility of adding room correction. These are the areas where very real upgrades are possible.
Amen to that.
 

ahofer

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Steve Dallas

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Getting back the the original question, one point has not yet been made: some integrated amps, and especially AVRs / AVCs / AVPs digitize the analog inputs to apply crossovers, EQ, etc. If that is the case, adding an external DAC is a complete waste of money, as it adds additional DAC and ADC stages that would not otherwise be in the signal chain.
 
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Napalm Tom

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Besides loads of input from yesterday, more to absorb today. Thanks everyone for all the great input. The common thread among this collective input is I need to forget about DACs for now and readdress the basics. I have boxed up the amp and speakers and returning them tomorrow. I want to return to ground zero and start building around the speakers I land on, which is what I should have done the first go around, but no point in me boohooing over spilled milk.

The most repeated input above is start with speakers. So I have a lot of speakers auditioning to do, which actually sounds fun. Perhaps I need to change the title of this thread to "Should I forget about DACs for now, return new equipment, and start over on my audio basics?" ;)

I'm starting to grasp the concept of room correction that Mr Widget suggested. My Sony home theater system has a room calibration set up using a mic held at my listening location within the room I have used. From what I can tell, room correction looks to be software only (and a mic). So if I have my redirected agenda back to a correct path - First priority - speakers. Second - an amp matched well to the speakers I landed on. Third - once I have the amp and speakers established, buy the software and mic for room correction.

I really like the "look" of Klipsch speakers, so I will include exploring their line to see if they sound as good as they look. I have a small living room, so I don't need gigantic speakers. The Elac models laserjock suggested are another attractive set, so I will include them in a listening test. I would be curious to hear from members here who have an audio system dedicated to music only in a small room such as my living room - it is approximately 12' x 20', and what speakers they landed on.
 
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sergeauckland

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Besides loads of input from yesterday, more to absorb today. Thanks everyone for all the great input. The common thread among this collective input is I need to forget about DACs for now and readdress the basics. I have boxed up the amp and speakers and returning them tomorrow. I want to return to ground zero and start building around the speakers I land on, which is what I should have done the first go around, but no point in me boohooing over spilled milk.

The most repeated input above is start with speakers. So I have a lot of speakers auditioning to do, which actually sounds fun. Perhaps I need to change the title of this thread to "Should I forget about DACs for now, return new equipment, and start over on my audio basics?" ;)

I'm starting to grasp the concept of room correction that Mr Widget suggested. My Sony home theater system has a room calibration set up using a mic held at my listening location within the room I have used. From what I can tell, room correction looks to be software only (and a mic). So if I have my redirected agenda back to a correct path - First priority - speakers. Second - an amp matched well to the speakers I landed on. Third - once I have the amp and speakers established, buy the software and mic for room correction.

I really like the "look" of Klipsch speakers, so I will include exploring their line to see if they sound as good as they look. I have a small living room, so I don't need gigantic speakers. The Elac models laserjock suggested are another attractive set, so I will include them in a listening test. I would be curious to hear from members here who have an audio system dedicated to music only in a small room such as my living room - it is approximately 12' x 20', and what speakers they landed on.
Good idea starting again.
As you no longer have 'speakers or an amplifier, how about thinking about active 'speakers? This will sort out both 'speakers and amplifier in one go.
If you look on here, there have been plenty of reviews of good actives at several price levels.

S.
 
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