Worst measuring loudspeaker?

[Ageve]

It’s not a good idea? Tell that to Yamaha the maker of own brand and Steinway pianos. Believe they tune the cabinets to enhance the listening experience. As I said look at the two Stereophile waterfall graphs and compare them.

A piano is a tuned musical instrument. A loudspeaker is not.

It's purpose is to reproduce sound, not create it's own. The sound "tuning" is already present in the recording.

 

[Suffolkhifinut]

A musical instrument produces sound waves we hear as music. A loudspeaker produces an imitation of these sound waves which we hear as music. If we are lucky the difference is minimal.

 

[fpitas]

A musical instrument produces sound waves we hear as music. A loudspeaker produces an imitation of these sound waves which we hear as music. If we are lucky the difference is minimal.

Out of curiosity...what is a good frequency for a speaker cabinet resonance?

 

[Suffolkhifinut]

Out of curiosity...what is a good frequency for a speaker cabinet resonance?

Bit of a strange question as the enclosure should react in harmony across the full audio frequency range. What exactly do you mean by resonance? Nearly all speaker makers would like an inert enclosure impossible to achieve.

 

[fpitas]

Bit of a strange question as the enclosure should react in harmony across the full audio frequency range. What exactly do you mean by resonance? Nearly all speaker makers would like an inert enclosure impossible to achieve.

If I understood you correctly, you thought (for example) Yamaha and Bosendorfer tuning the cabinets was a good thing.

 

[Suffolkhifinut]

If I understood you correctly, you thought (for example) Yamaha and Bosendorfer tuning the cabinets was a good thing.

Definitely! Think one of the points I made was others can’t do it because they don’t have the expertise.

 

[Purité Audio]

Loudspeakers that both create and reproduce music what’s not to like.
Keith

 

[fpitas]

Loudspeakers that both create and reproduce music what’s not to like.
Keith

Double the tunefulness

 

[617]

All bass alignments are resonators, with the exception of the sealed box. And maybe dipoles? I mean Qes+Qms describes the dominant resonance of a woofer. Woofers are just bells that are damped until they sound like transducers.

 

[Purité Audio]

I have actually heard some speakers like that, I didn’t feel the thrum added anything, I once to my shame sold an amplifier that used a ‘tone wood’ base, fortunately it was technically broken ( I did report the fault to the manufacturer) so I sent it back.
Keith

 

[617]

I have actually heard some speakers like that, I didn’t feel the thrum added anything, I once to my shame sold an amplifier that used a ‘tone wood’ base, fortunately it was technically broken ( I did report the fault to the manufacturer) so I sent it back.
Keith

Keith, off topic but how are you doing with the Danley's? Finding much interest? It's a unique offering and I wonder how it would do in the context of your showroom.

 

[fpitas]

All bass alignments are resonators, with the exception of the sealed box. And maybe dipoles? I mean Qes+Qms describes the dominant resonance of a woofer. Woofers are just bells that are damped until they sound like transducers.

Well, maybe that's what they mean by tuning the cabinet? I should hope they tune the port. There's an "any old port in a storm" joke there somewhere.

 

[Purité Audio]

The pre production ( ugly as hell ) prototypes went off to Hungary for some club/live sound venue, coincidentally I spoke to the Danley U.k. guy just yesterday they are receiving both the HRE and the triangular one, ILE in a month or two both will have revised cosmetics.
To be frank I doubt whether I would ever sell a pair, but I do like them so perhaps a pair for my dotage.
Keith

 

[Suffolkhifinut]

Keith, off topic but how are you doing with the Danley's? Finding much interest? It's a unique offering and I wonder how it would do in the context of your showroom.

Just read the spec sheet for the Danley J4-31. Good God 64 drivers and an SPL of 150db. How big would the listening room have to be? Know you don’t have to run it full throttle but Wow! How can you get 64 drivers to work together in a cohesive manner?

 

[MarkS]

Those are outdoor PA speakers, are they not?

 

[Purité Audio]

These are the HRE formerly Hyperion, next to the triangular ILE, they are capable.



Keith

 

[thewas]

Definitely! Think one of the points I made was others can’t do it because they don’t have the expertise.

Which is typical audiophool nonsense of not understanding the difference of a reproduction, also I haven't seen Yamaha claiming such, could you please link a source where they do?

 

[MattHooper]

New review: Lowther Almira speakers:

Lowther Almira Loudspeaker Lab Report

Lab Report Although the Almira is notionally a two-way, the minimalist crossover on the supertweeter arm (a single capacitor) ensures it behaves more like a 'full range' single driver enclosure with supplemented upper treble. Measured midway between the DX3 and tweeter the forward response...

www.hifinews.com

Yikes!

(Note the subjective impressions track very well with the horrifying measurements).

 

[Purité Audio]

Close the thread we have a winner.
Keith

 

[garyrc]

Lowther Almira Loudspeaker Lab Report www.hifinews.com

Seeing this result, along with those cited earlier in this thread, reinforces my impression that we need a set of measures that explain more of the variance in preferences and subjective reactions to speakers.

Smoothness of response, or the lack of it, doesn't explain enough.

Hi Fi news praises the following in these speakers:

"Doc plays trumpet, and I knew it would reveal as much as anything I could feed the Lowther Almiras. As with Herb Alpert albums, his arrangements of 'Fever', 'Monday, Monday' and other standards or hits-of-the-day are big band interpretations which use the entire bandwidth of a system.

As expected, the Almiras had no trouble conveying the crisp, sharp staccatos on the livelier tracks, such as 'Trumpets And Crumpets', the undeniable speed of the transients as hot as you'd want them to be. When the music turned slow and moody, however, the lack of deep, massive bass deprived the kettle drums on 'Fever' of their weight and presence. It was frustrating, because I heard so much of the old Lowthers in there, waiting to escape.

Looking Forward
A better performance came with Confederate Railroad's eponymous debut [Atlantic 82335-2], one of my favourite 'modern country' albums (although it's now 30 years old). 'Trashy Women' lilted along, as sardonic as ever, the pedal steel crystal clear. And why this venerable album? Because what I unfashionably call 'redneck bass' is about twang, not bulk, and it did nothing to embarrass Lowther's Almira."

So, these sound like the strong suits of horns in the midrange and treble, where the frequency response is very uneven, but not in the bass, which doesn't seem to engage.

In my early days as an audiophile (1960s, 1970s) people felt fine about using tone controls, with which one could smooth out gross anomalies in response. Now we have Audyssey, Dirac, and Trinnov (in ascending order of effectiveness??), so some improvement in smoothness can be had, but little, if anything, can be done to provide, "undeniable speed of the transients as hot as you'd want them to be," and "crisp, sharp staccatos on the livelier tracks."

Here we have the truly horrible looking frequency response of the improperly placed (IMO) Klipschorn, up on a furniture dolly, outside, with no boundary gain, and probably no room gain, under circumstances that would probably reduce bass response about 6 dB below that of Klipsch's "in close proximity of a room corner, but toe-in permissible."

Klipschorn, Some EQ, sealed in corner, 1/6 octave smoothing, one microphone position (not recommended)
sub takes over below 60 Hz (sub curve not shown), so, when sub is used, Klipschorn frequencies below 60 Hz are made to roll off at about 12 dB per octave, compared to what is shown in this graph.

Same as above but with 8 mic positions averaged, response above 43Hz only, with room curve similar to Harmon speaker/room curve, 1/3 octave smoothing.

To my ears, this sounds about right for orchestral music, and I love the precise transient response, ultra dynamic sound, detail, and as a friend put it, "free floating" sound.