Worst measuring loudspeaker?

[Sal1950]

View attachment 456501I had a pair of these bad boys as a teen, droven by a Radio Shack 10 watt amp. I'd say these qualify.

Sound quality with them was never too important. We were mostly too busy at the drive-in's to care all that much abut it.

 

[egellings]

Just to compare semantic notes, what range is now considered "presence?"

My old Martin Mayer book "High Fidelity," published in 1958 (I keep it right next to my remnants of the Dead Sea Scrolls) "presence" was defined as being centered on 5KHz. Just now I looked on Google, and they have it at 4KHz to 6KHz ... agrees with Mayer, some 67 years later. The REW graph header agrees. My old ears find it as 4KHz to 8KHz. Anyway, the two graphs you reproduced from Stereophile, show a peak from 4KHz to 10KHz, of about 3ish dB to 4ish dB, higher than anywhere else above 3.5Hz. What range do you hear as "presence?"

I tend to associate presence with the human voice range.

 

[IngMishael]

Just to compare semantic notes, what range is now considered "presence?"

My old Martin Mayer book "High Fidelity," published in 1958 (I keep it right next to my remnants of the Dead Sea Scrolls) "presence" was defined as being centered on 5KHz. Just now I looked on Google, and they have it at 4KHz to 6KHz ... agrees with Mayer, some 67 years later. The REW graph header agrees. My old ears find it as 4KHz to 8KHz. Anyway, the two graphs you reproduced from Stereophile, show a peak from 4KHz to 10KHz, of about 3ish dB to 4ish dB, higher than anywhere else above 3.5Hz. What range do you hear as "presence?"

3000-7000 Hz being the lowest bound and uppermost bound. in music production, a mild q rise between this range lead to a sense of forwardness (being more present)
Basically, the harmonic ranges for various instruments, voices and tones. it is part of the most upfront region to the human hearing

 

[garyrc]

Sorry, but my use of the term “ presence” there wasn’t as clear as it could’ve been.
What I was thinking of is when I listened to those speakers how all sorts of instruments that lent excitement in many tracks I love - for instance in some Latin tracks - sounded subdued. The slapping of hands on bongos, the impact of timbales, handclaps etc… they lacked presence in terms of jumping out with the power and vividness I was accustomed to.
I could sense there was a scoop out in the relevant frequency range which made those instrument sound more recessed and slightly more dull. I’m thinking probably somewhere within the 1 - 5k range.

I don’t have the measurements for the smaller model I listened to. But it had a very distinct trough in the frequency response. If my memory is at all accurate, it would suggest that the frequency I response I heard was very much like that bigger Raidho shown above, but perhaps the depression extended a little higher, or started a little higher. But the general sense of such a gap was similar. As was the sense of boosted bass for a sense of impact.

Thanks

 

[garyrc]

1. These posts make sense to me. Thanks to all.
2. An often seen dip (similar to the BBC dip) centered at 2K, is cited by some (don't remember who) as a measure to attenuate "harshness." The big Raidho speakers certainly seem to have it in the Stereophile graphs. Above that range, the Raidhos recover to provide a gentle peak 4K to 10K. Maybe they just overdid the dip.
3. When the preamp and receiver manufactures started (in the '70s?) to include a "presence" control along with the standard (now lamented) Bass and Treble controls, Paul W. Klipsch suggested they include an "absence" control, as well. He was speaking tongue-in-cheek, but that's where Paul's tongue usually was.

 

[mhardy6647]

I was quite proud of figuring out, as a child, that plugging the (dynamic) microphone of my little RCA 5" tape recorder into the earphone jack would play the tape's audio back through the mic.
Obviously, at low volume only -- those mic diaphragms are rather delicate and limited in power handling (as Altec learned with their somewhat infamous 3000 compression tweeter).

image from https://www.itishifi.com/archives//2016/08/altec-3000a-tweeter.html

 

[dfuller]

How do the ‘pro’ Amphion models measure, they have impedance and FR ( 10dB) on their site but that’s about it.
And they don’t use ‘impure’ DSP!
Keith

They measure... okay. Unusually wide vertical beamwidth thanks to a low crossover point (they spec Fc as 1600hz, but per S&R it's more like 1100). FR is +/-3dB 100hz-10k but it's choppy doing so. The One18 has a F3 around 70hz, F10 around 45hz. It's okay, but they're very expensive for what you get ($3300/pr). I personally found them kind of cloudy sounding, probably the mids having a big whacking resonance around 700hz and a dip around 1-2khz.

Amphion One18: Passiver 2-Wege-Monitor mit externer Endstufe im Test

Amphion aus Finnland entwickelt und fertigt Lautsprecher für den professionellen Studio-Einsatz und für den gehobenen Consumer-Markt. Auf der Amphion-Homepage wird zwischen Consumer-Produkten und Studiomonitoren unterschieden. Bei den Studiomonitoren finden sich fünf passive 2-Wege-Monitore der...

www.soundandrecording.de

Most of the more educated audio engineers I know won't come within 10 feet of them. Most of them are running much more linear stuff, e.g. Neumann, the better ATCs, Genelecs.

 

[Purité Audio]

Speakers without measurement I find I can instantly dismiss.
Keith

 

[Involver]

They measure... okay. Unusually wide vertical beamwidth thanks to a low crossover point (they spec Fc as 1600hz, but per S&R it's more like 1100). FR is +/-3dB 100hz-10k but it's choppy doing so. The One18 has a F3 around 70hz, F10 around 45hz. It's okay, but they're very expensive for what you get ($3300/pr). I personally found them kind of cloudy sounding, probably the mids having a big whacking resonance around 700hz and a dip around 1-2khz.

Amphion One18: Passiver 2-Wege-Monitor mit externer Endstufe im Test

Amphion aus Finnland entwickelt und fertigt Lautsprecher für den professionellen Studio-Einsatz und für den gehobenen Consumer-Markt. Auf der Amphion-Homepage wird zwischen Consumer-Produkten und Studiomonitoren unterschieden. Bei den Studiomonitoren finden sich fünf passive 2-Wege-Monitore der...

www.soundandrecording.de

Most of the more educated audio engineers I know won't come within 10 feet of them. Most of them are running much more linear stuff, e.g. Neumann, the better ATCs, Genelecs.

Measurements are still pretty mixed, and headroom is limited, but I've found the One15 to be a much more useful speaker for mixing.

 

[rsc1]

View attachment 456302

Ouch. I didn't know my ears could hurt just from looking at a graph.

 

[a4eaudio]

...We were mostly too busy at the drive-in's to care all that much abut it.

If you are going to makes posts like this, you should explain what a "drive-in" is for our younger forum members. Specifically, it is not where you pick up your Big Mac and fries.

 

[garyrc]

If you are going to makes posts like this, you should explain what a "drive-in" is for our younger forum members. Specifically, it is not where you pick up your Big Mac and fries.

To the young: This is a "drive-in," c. 1956.

1. They had so-so image quality projection, if everybody would only keep their headlights off.
2. The sound was worse. In a normal indoor theater in 1953-1956, the sound was just getting good (providing one had a magnetic/stereo soundtrack rather than the execrable mono/optical ones).
3. Also, think of the difference between this:
   

and this:

 

[Tom C]

I remember drive in sound as not that bad. The speaker was quite small, yes, but hung on your window close to your ear.

 

[Petrushka]

I remember drive in sound as not that bad. The speaker was quite small, yes, but hung on your window close to your ear.

I remember the sound as pretty awful.

I saw Star Wars for the first time at a drive-in.

First attempt was in a theater, but my two-year-old son was terrified, and I spent most of the movie in the lobby.

 

[Arindal]

I remember the sound as pretty awful.

I saw Star Wars for the first time at a drive-in.

They did not have FM transmitter for your own car stereo already?

 

[Petrushka]

They did not have FM transmitter for your own car stereo already?

Possibly. That was a while back.

But I was discussing the speakers that attached to the window.

 

[norman bates]

yea, some drive-ins went to transmitting on FM, but those were in the "last days" of the one that was near me.

 

[OldHvyMec]

yea, some drive-ins went to transmitting on FM, but those were in the "last days" of the one that was near me.

I actually got to listen to "Woodstock" on a Craig Power play with 4 6X9s and 2 6" Pioneers in a Ford Fairlane fastback. My little hot rod was surrounded by other people just sitting around on that warm summer night. Popped the trunk and popped the doors.

The problem was that it took 3 of my buddies' batteries that were gathered around before the night was over, and we still had to get a jump start from another kind gentleman and a 2 push starts, to get all 4 of us going before we could leave. What the heck, kids!

Regards

 

[Mnyb]

These where never a thing in Sweden , winter would be terrible and in the summer it’s basically not dark for many hours at our latitude ,or not dark at all ( you don’t need a full midnight sun , even with the sun below the horizon you get a long twilight period, the sun does not just drop like at the equator )

 

[sigbergaudio]

These where never a thing in Sweden , winter would be terrible and in the summer it’s basically not dark for many hours at our latitude ,or not dark at all ( you don’t need a full midnight sun , even with the sun below the horizon you get a long twilight period, the sun does not just drop like at the equator )

I was thinking the same (Norway here), movies outside? It would either be too bright or snowing.