Worst measuring loudspeaker?

[IngMishael]

So this is the mediocre, "backstabby" response they were preparing when they decided to not respond to Erin's emails.

Why do these manufacturers insist on being weird

 

[Soniclife]

Borresen measurements, with proper scaling:

View attachment 412113

Perhaps not the best graph to publish, if they want to show how "good" this speaker is.

Erin's vertical measurements don't show the same off axis improvements.

 

[Ageve]

Erin's vertical measurements don't show the same off axis improvements.

There’s a slight possibility that his measurements are more accurate.

 

[Purité Audio]

So this is the mediocre, "backstabby" response they were preparing when they decided to not respond to Erin's emails.

Why do these manufacturers insist on being weird

Profit?
Keith

 

[VintageFlanker]

Perhaps not the best graph to publish, if they want to show how "good" this speaker is.

Not to mention these cost 10k. This is just absurd.

 

[Soniclife]

There’s a slight possibility that his measurements are more accurate.

Only a slight possibility?

I still don't know how to create that sort of weird dip then sharp recovery, even on purpose.

 

[Newman]

Erin's vertical measurements don't show the same off axis improvements.

The only interesting to me objection that Børresen raised was the tweeter listening angle, which the above shows is not the answer. Thanks!

 

[MattHooper]

This statement from the Borresen missive seemed odd:

Børresen’s Statement: “The blue curve is a measurement taken directly on the tweeter axis from 1m. The green curve is taken at the same distance, but with the microphone lowered to an angle that resembles a normal listening position (3m distance 90cm height) this shows just how significant it is to measure speaker in the right positions and right angles, as responses can vary quite a lot. This one of the main reasons for our “more listening, less measuring approach” to speaker design”.

I would want to reply to Borresen:

1. But you just indicated that measurements can demonstrate your claim, and explain what the listener is going to hear from the same spot.

After demonstrating the relevance of measuring, it seems like a non-seqitur to follow that with “ this is why we use less measuring.”

2. The “more listening less measuring approach” seems to be showing some liabilities given that it’s resulted in speakers that are, from the reports of many listeners, audibly coloured in just the way the measurements suggest.

 

[MattHooper]

The sacrifices some make for single driver speakers:

From Jay’s recent review;

He didn’t like it very much. And it’s nice to see more reviewers like him including some measurements and the reviews these days.

 

[Bjorn]

It's possible to design a single driver speaker linear, but it will not go very low in frequency.

 

[kyuu]

The sacrifices some make for single driver speakers:

View attachment 420840

Hey, the frequency response may be all over the place, but at least there's not a crossover!

 

[GXAlan]

It's possible to design a single driver speaker linear, but it will not go very low in frequency.

MM4-XP is one example. We’ll see how it performs under the Klippel NFS shortly.

The sacrifices some make for single driver speakers:

View attachment 420840

From Jay’s recent review;

He didn’t like it very much. And it’s nice to see more reviewers like him including some measurements and the reviews these days.

The smiley face may make it somewhat enjoyable with the added freauency response irregularities getting masked by stereo playback. What I like about those speakers are the wood enclosures and finish. With sighted bias in play, they are relatively furniture-like in attractiveness.

 

[Mart68]

Hey, the frequency response may be all over the place, but at least there's not a crossover!

and it's a point source too. Who cares if it sounds bad? - suspect that one actually does sound bad with anything but very simple music, looking at that FR curve.

There are some out there that sound inoffensive. Never seen the purpose of them myself. Did have some Lowthers once, very briefly - they were not for me.

 

[Descartes]

It's possible to design a single driver speaker linear, but it will not go very low in frequency.

$3,300 that’s an obnoxiously expensive cost for such a low quality speaker.

KEF is able to design single source point such as the KEF LS50 but of course it is not a single driver but a concentric speaker with a tweeter in the middle of the mid!

 

[IngMishael]

$3,300 that’s an obnoxiously expensive cost for such a low quality speaker.

KEF is able to design single source point such as the KEF LS50 but of course it is not a single driver but a concentric speaker with a tweeter in the middle of the mid!

hell you can get a pair of Sourcepoint 10s from Music Direct at that cost and they dog-walk this speaker and are point source too with incredible dynamics

 

[GXAlan]

Lii Song Reference Speakers| DECWARE

With the DECWARE Zen Triode amplifier - 2.3 watts of SET Bliss!

www.decwareproducts.com

Interestingly, here you see a presumably better nearfield measurement.

 

[MattHooper]

View attachment 420847

MM4-XP is one example. We’ll see how it performs under the Klippel NFS shortly.




The smiley face may make it somewhat enjoyable with the added freauency response irregularities getting masked by stereo playback. What I like about those speakers are the wood enclosures and finish. With sighted bias in play, they are relatively furniture-like in attractiveness.

I’ve listened to single driver speakers like that - in my case, some lowther designs - I could certainly hear an uneven frequency response.
But frankly, it was still fun to listen to and had some pretty neat virtues, even though I would never buy such speakers for myself.

 

[MattHooper]

Hey, the frequency response may be all over the place, but at least there's not a crossover!

Yes, I never got the allergy for crossover parts.

I’ve always loved Thiel loudspeakers are notorious for complex crossovers, and lots of crossover parts, but they sounded as transparent and detailed as any other design I’ve ever heard, including single driver speakers,

 

[Frank Dernie]

It's possible to design a single driver speaker linear, but it will not go very low in frequency.

BMR modal driver is superb in this respect.

 

[kemmler3D]

Erin's vertical measurements don't show the same off axis improvements.

Looking at this, there's almost no pejorative subjective term you couldn't find in the chart somewhere, yikes.

I went to look at a picture of the speaker, and you wouldn't know it measures so crazy. The driver spacing is a tad loose, but nothing crazy, the cabinet is rounded over, the drivers look... promising or at least interesting anyway, and there seems to be a waveguide of some kind... but apparently they just eyeballed it...