Utter nonsense.
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Worst measuring loudspeaker?
- Thread starter Purité Audio
- Start date
Yep, a subtle treble lift of - checks chart - more than 10dB from 1kHz to 10kHz.
Definitely subtle.
DSJR
Major Contributor
No, personal first-hand experience!!!
New xo for B&W 802D https://pkaudio.webnode.cz/bw802d2/
Well, a first order tweeter HPF sure would explain a lot. Good grief, why do people do this?
Way back, before people were afraid to use tone controls, I always adjusted bass and treble, and whatever else, by ear. I had no way to measure, except a Radio Shack meter that was shit, so I rarely used it. The point is, I couldn't really give a damn what the measurements really would have been, I just had to make it sound good. At the time, I played in an orchestra 5 days a week, and I could hear 16K from behind an EV T35 tweeter. Ah, youth!
I used to say, "I can make any speaker sound good." [Hubris]
There were only two I could not: The ADC 303AX and a Radio Shack Something-or-Other.The ADC always sounded too dull, or not "airy" enough, and the Radio Shack couldn't develop enough bass without distortion. At first, I used a Dyna PAS 3 preamp's bass and treble controls. Then, right at the end of this period (1980?) I used a Luxman L580, with multiple turnover points, boosts, cuts, etc., which was even better.
I was able to EQ:
JBLs:
L100
030/C34
Klipsch Heresy I
Altec small 2 ways
Altec Coaxes 604 E
Ampex speakers that came with a stereo tape recorder
Now, I use Audyssey, but I use tone controls to make adjustments for individual discs, when needed. So, I might get what B&W is attempting. It's how they sound that counts, even when we are blind to any measurements.
I used to say, "I can make any speaker sound good." [Hubris]
There were only two I could not: The ADC 303AX and a Radio Shack Something-or-Other.The ADC always sounded too dull, or not "airy" enough, and the Radio Shack couldn't develop enough bass without distortion. At first, I used a Dyna PAS 3 preamp's bass and treble controls. Then, right at the end of this period (1980?) I used a Luxman L580, with multiple turnover points, boosts, cuts, etc., which was even better.
I was able to EQ:
Several EV 2 way and 3 way -- one pair were "Aristocrats" -- horn tweeters, and midrange (if any)
An Infinity c. 1970JBLs:
L100
030/C34
Klipsch Heresy I
Altec small 2 ways
Altec Coaxes 604 E
Ampex speakers that came with a stereo tape recorder
Now, I use Audyssey, but I use tone controls to make adjustments for individual discs, when needed. So, I might get what B&W is attempting. It's how they sound that counts, even when we are blind to any measurements.
Really great write up and a great example of how being a well established loudspeaker company in no way implies that you're people know what they're doing. I often try to convince people of just how bad some commercial stuff is by showing them just how much better DIY'ers can do. This has everything all in one place.
Other than that yes, what an absolutely terrible speaker (original filtering). Makes me feel really good about my own stuff.
It isn't terrible according to Stereophile. In fact it's very good.
It's better to have a simple crossover and it works well here.
OP
- Thread Starter
- #972
John Atkinson finds himself in a difficult position, It has been discussed here exhaustively, B&W knew ( and presumably know) how to design a decent speaker but for reasons best known to themselves they don’t.
Keith
Keith
It's really not, first order crossover slopes force high cross points and have drivers playing where they aren't comfortable, and also introduce severe interference problems off axis.
I genuinely don't care about anything they say and do not have much respect for the publication or those working there. The data is fine, but this is a group that publishes recommendations for $20k cd players and will have positive things to say about some of the absolute worst speakers ever conceived.
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The 802D does not measure poorly though
Not textbook FR but within the acceptable range. Very little resonance in the cabs, acceptable off axis. It's not an easy load but that's not uncommon these days.
OP
- Thread Starter
- #976
Did you see the measurements posted above for the D4?
Keith
Keith
It isn't bad according to the data on Stereophile.
OP
- Thread Starter
- #978
B&W obviously feel that their ‘signature’ sound sells, their original 801 from the early 80’s is a super measuring loudspeaker.
DSJR
Major Contributor
I agree as regards the 801, but domestically at the time, the KEF 105 got all the attention, so it seems that here in the UK at least B&W put their energies into promoting the 800 speaker range in professional studios (mastering especially and some mixing rooms too). I heard the same set of late originals (pre M cabs) sound a bit relentless and 'hard toned' in a Decca (Belsize Road) mastering room and driven by a large HH MOS-FET stereo amp (V800?), but when this pair was replaced by a Matrix cabinet pair and they were donated to my mastering engineer pal on 'permanent loan' many years ago now, they sounded superb in his home - and still do I gather, some decades later
I heard a set of N801s in a large space, Classe driven I recall and I have to say I wondered where the presence range had gone (light small-orchestral work was played). Nothing like you'd hear live and no venue atmosphere at all I remember. No idea on the silly-money new bling ones though.
I wonder if the latest ones are an attempt to slowly lead the fans into something a little better? Going fully active will be a step too far for their market I suspect (I remember liking the now ancient John Bowers Active Ones), although PMC have launched amp packs for their domestic towers and Harbeth have significant investment in a new (mostly pro orientated) range coming to market.
I heard a set of N801s in a large space, Classe driven I recall and I have to say I wondered where the presence range had gone (light small-orchestral work was played). Nothing like you'd hear live and no venue atmosphere at all I remember. No idea on the silly-money new bling ones though.
I wonder if the latest ones are an attempt to slowly lead the fans into something a little better? Going fully active will be a step too far for their market I suspect (I remember liking the now ancient John Bowers Active Ones), although PMC have launched amp packs for their domestic towers and Harbeth have significant investment in a new (mostly pro orientated) range coming to market.
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