Wondering about a subwoofer...

[Willem]

I use a passive High Pass filter. One output from the RME ADI-2 goes into the sub, the other into the power amp via a cable with a HPF. With regard to subwoofers, Kef also have the cheaper Kube series with 8, 10 and 12 inch models. For the same budget as the more expensive models you could have two, which may well give a smoother in-room response. And do not miss out on dsp room eq. An Antimode 8033 would be an easy option, but you could also create a filter in REW and upload that into Roon from what I understand. Dual/multiple subs and dsp eq is the golden combination.

 

[JSmith]

wondering whether I should give one a try

Are you in an apartment?

If not...

JSmith

 

[NiagaraPete]

Follow up from SVS:

Thanks for reaching out to SVS!

At one time all SVS subwoofers had a high pass on the line level outputs. Based on almost two decades of customer feedback, this feature was almost never used, and also requires some DSP which is something audiophiles eschewed. So it was dropped as a feature in our subwoofers and we have no plans to reintroduce it.

The best way to integrate a subwoofer into a 2 channel system is to run the speakers on full-range and then low pass the subwoofer at the natural roll-off of the speakers. If the speakers are sealed use a 12 dB/octave slope on the LPF and if they are ported use a 24 dB/octave slope.

Adding a HPF to the speakers will create integration problems with the subwoofer, because the speaker will initially track the slope of the HPF, and then it will start to roll-off naturally and the resulting slopes will be additive. This will create phase asymmetry with the subwoofer on the low pass side.

If you truly need to high pass the speakers, then I recommend looking at the passive line level Harrison Labs FMOD or a mini-DSP 2x4 HD.

Thanks and if you have any other questions, please don't hesitate to ask.

 

[PatentLawyer]

Interesting. In my desktop setup, I have a passive hi-pass (just a poly cap) on my Tozzi Ones, as extensive back-and-forth listening convinced me that I like the sound better with the high pass in place. I think a full range driver is a special case, though, with IMD concerns not present in a multi-way.

 

[Willem]

I was about to start integrating a second subwoofer (the small Kef Kube 8b from my study) into my main system when I discovered that my B&W PV1d sub had died sometime during the last few days (I hope it can be fixed - we shall see). So the little Kef has now been assigned main sub duty (with a pair of Quad 2805 electrostats). Yesterday I set it up and measured response with REW to find the best volume and crossover settings. Not surprisingly it does not go as low: the Kef goes down to more or less 25 Hz whereas the B&W had gone down flat to 12Hz (in the same large - 75 sqm - room). The difference in extension is audible on some music, but only just. However, it did seem a bit woolly compared to the B&W. So first thing today was to recalibrate the ANtimode 8033 that I use to equalize subwoofer room response. Having done that, the sound is now as tight as with the far more expensive PV1d. At some time I will still have to measure the equalized response.
I think what this shows is that you do not need a very expensive subwoofer if your interest is in music rather than nuclear explosions. The experience with the recalibrated equalization shows once again that room response is more important than the "speed"or whatever of the sub itself.

 

[PatentLawyer]

I was about to start integrating a second subwoofer (the small Kef Kube 8b from my study) into my main system when I discovered that my B&W PV1d sub had died sometime during the last few days (I hope it can be fixed - we shall see). So the little Kef has now been assigned main sub duty (with a pair of Quad 2805 electrostats). Yesterday I set it up and measured response with REW to find the best volume and crossover settings. Not surprisingly it does not go as low: the Kef goes down to more or less 25 Hz whereas the B&W had gone down flat to 12Hz (in the same large - 75 sqm - room). The difference in extension is audible on some music, but only just. Hower, it did seem a bit woolly compared to the B&W. So first thing today was to recalibrate the ANtimode 8033 that I use to equalize subwoofer room response. Having done that, the sound is now as tight as with the far more expensive PV1d. At some time I will still have to measure the equalized response.
I think what this shows is that you do not need a very expensive subwoofer if your interest is in music rather than nuclear explosions. The experience with the recalibrated equalization shows once again that room response is more important than the "speed"or whatever of the sub itself.

I think you are on the right track. My desktop system uses a $99 Dayton audio sub, but I have DSP on it. It is very satisfying for effectively no money.

 

[Everett T]

I was about to start integrating a second subwoofer (the small Kef Kube 8b from my study) into my main system when I discovered that my B&W PV1d sub had died sometime during the last few days (I hope it can be fixed - we shall see). So the little Kef has now been assigned main sub duty (with a pair of Quad 2805 electrostats). Yesterday I set it up and measured response with REW to find the best volume and crossover settings. Not surprisingly it does not go as low: the Kef goes down to more or less 25 Hz whereas the B&W had gone down flat to 12Hz (in the same large - 75 sqm - room). The difference in extension is audible on some music, but only just. Hower, it did seem a bit woolly compared to the B&W. So first thing today was to recalibrate the ANtimode 8033 that I use to equalize subwoofer room response. Having done that, the sound is now as tight as with the far more expensive PV1d. At some time I will still have to measure the equalized response.
I think what this shows is that you do not need a very expensive subwoofer if your interest is in music rather than nuclear explosions. The experience with the recalibrated equalization shows once again that room response is more important than the "speed"or whatever of the sub itself.

Most of the action in movies occurs in the 40 to 60hz range anyway, so a sub that can hit that range with authority is what satisfies most. Hitting 105db at 16hz is fun, just not as satisfying as 120db at 60hz. Not a tremendous amount of that content available in the teens.

 

[Ultrasonic]

The best way to integrate a subwoofer into a 2 channel system is to run the speakers on full-range and then low pass the subwoofer at the natural roll-off of the speakers. If the speakers are sealed use a 12 dB/octave slope on the LPF and if they are ported use a 24 dB/octave slope.

Adding a HPF to the speakers will create integration problems with the subwoofer, because the speaker will initially track the slope of the HPF, and then it will start to roll-off naturally and the resulting slopes will be additive. This will create phase asymmetry with the subwoofer on the low pass side.

I bet they didn't say this when their subs had high-pass filters.

I also strongly disagree with it, as there can be significant benefits of high-pass filtering main speakers to limit the frequency range they have to handle, and to let a more capable sub do this instead.

 

[Everett T]

I bet they didn't say this when their subs had high-pass filters.

I also strongly disagree with it, as there can be significant benefits of high-pass filtering main speakers to limit the frequency range they have to handle, and to let a more capable sub do this instead.

In 2015 for sure they had it on the ultras and the plus models.

 

[MarkS]

Good to know, thanks! I will investigate these.

AND: it turns out they are much too expensive for me, $1500 and $2000.

 

[NiagaraPete]

Good to know, thanks! I will investigate these.

AND: it turns out they are much too expensive for me, $1500 and $2000.

I paid 1075.00 CDN including tax an shipping for the SVS 3000 micro so it should be way cheaper US

 

[Everett T]

Good to know, thanks! I will investigate these.

AND: it turns out they are much too expensive for me, $1500 and $2000.

The sb 1 and 2000series should be more then enough for music. The ultras and 4000 series are probably overkill for music, except in larger rooms and certain music.

 

[MarkS]

You mean SVS? Sure, the SB1000 is the one I have my eye on. But no high-pass for my main speakers.

 

[Everett T]

You mean SVS? Sure, the SB1000 is the one I have my eye on. But no high-pass for my main speakers.

Just purchase a passive High Pass filter and you're all good.

 

[Chrispy]

Or use external management via dsp like a miniDSP 2x4 etc....can't imagine being stuck just doing the blending thing.

 

[Chrispy]

OTOH if your spl goals are fairly low then blending might work okay....

 

[MarkS]

My SPL goals are low. My main problem is "analysis paralysis", as there doesn't seem to be a simple plug-and-play solution for a 2.1 or 2.2 system.

I've almost talked myself into getting an SVS SB1000 pro and a minidsp SHD ...

 

[Chrispy]

My SPL goals are low. My main problem is "analysis paralysis", as there doesn't seem to be a simple plug-and-play solution for a 2.1 or 2.2 system.

I've almost talked myself into getting an SVS SB1000 pro and a minidsp SHD ...

Try the simpler/cheaper route and go from there?

 

[theyellowspecial]

Even a cheap sub with room control/DSP is worthwhile with almost any floorstander.

 

[YSC]

Follow up from SVS:

Thanks for reaching out to SVS!

At one time all SVS subwoofers had a high pass on the line level outputs. Based on almost two decades of customer feedback, this feature was almost never used, and also requires some DSP which is something audiophiles eschewed. So it was dropped as a feature in our subwoofers and we have no plans to reintroduce it.

The best way to integrate a subwoofer into a 2 channel system is to run the speakers on full-range and then low pass the subwoofer at the natural roll-off of the speakers. If the speakers are sealed use a 12 dB/octave slope on the LPF and if they are ported use a 24 dB/octave slope.

Adding a HPF to the speakers will create integration problems with the subwoofer, because the speaker will initially track the slope of the HPF, and then it will start to roll-off naturally and the resulting slopes will be additive. This will create phase asymmetry with the subwoofer on the low pass side.

If you truly need to high pass the speakers, then I recommend looking at the passive line level Harrison Labs FMOD or a mini-DSP 2x4 HD.

Thanks and if you have any other questions, please don't hesitate to ask.

I think that's a yes and no thing, they have their point for the audiophile market, and the roll off integration if you're just using the sub to fil in bass extension... but if you want to do counter room modes by sub placement for nulls in bass region, then I think you need to cross over higher than the bass null in your room