WolfX700 Measurement of Topping L30 Headphone Amp

[MSTARK]

This is why when I write my thoughts on this type of stuff I try and skip audio opinions. As long as it’s got a “good enough” number by your own criteria. SINAD, THD, jitter, power, output impedance - pick your poison. Then it’s all about product quality and how it operates in real world use. Think about where you’re gunna put it and use it. The chose the one that does that best.

Can’t wait to get my hands on it to find out what you guys are talking about. Too bad I don’t have another of those amps on hand to compare it to.

 

[zenki]

Just got mine. Listening to it atm. What can I say...
This' the REAL DEAL!
Wasn't expecting anything coming from Atom but my... was sorely mistaken.
Using a sh*tty IEM (not bass tuned) the resolution + clarity is noticably higher that I can actually hear the difference.

Physicality is nice and cool metal, looks sexy. Best thing besides the internals are definitely the gain switch and volpot. A bit more resistance to the volpot could be better but yeah no real complaints here.
The only gripe so far is my unit come with a minor scratch at the top and power cable a bit short.
RIP 25%.

 

[JohnYang1997]

Just got mine. Listening to it atm. What can I say...
This' the REAL DEAL!
Wasn't expecting anything coming from Atom but my... was sorely mistaken.
Using a sh*tty IEM (not bass tuned) the resolution + clarity is noticably higher that I can actually hear the difference.

Physicality is nice and cool metal, looks sexy. Best thing besides the internals are definitely the gain switch and volpot. A bit more resistance to the volpot could be better but yeah no real complaints here.
The only gripe so far is my unit come with a minor scratch at the top and power cable a bit short.
RIP 25%.

Photo pls? And serial number.
As per power cable length, I'll see the feedback from more users. If many report this, I'll change that in the future.

 

[maxxevv]

Just got mine. Listening to it atm. What can I say...
This' the REAL DEAL!
Wasn't expecting anything coming from Atom but my... was sorely mistaken.
Using a sh*tty IEM (not bass tuned) the resolution + clarity is noticably higher that I can actually hear the difference.

If you're coming from the JDS Atom, its probably the difference in volume outputs while tested. On IEMs, even a 0.3~0.5 dB difference can make a noticeable difference. Something you cannot discern by hand or ear accurately.

Unless you physically match the output voltage values with a multimeter / volmeter and came to that conclusion, there shouldn't be significant enough differences between them for a IEM level power draw to be heard. Extremely hard to drive headphones, perhaps due to power differences but IEMs ? Extremely unlikely.

 

[velasfloyd]

I get it. But if spects being within lowest of possible margin, features, esthetics, build quality must be a factor determining cost. Correct?

yes. This is why this site is great. You can see (with science, no youtubers reviewers bla bla) that once a device is not flawed, they are all pretty much the same for our ears. So you should pay for features, inputs, outputs, look, build quality, etc.

 

[raistlin65]

I get it. But if spects being within lowest of possible margin, features, esthetics, build quality must be a factor determining cost. Correct?

Exactly. That's why I bought the L30. I have the Atom. I have no expectations that they will sound different. But I wanted to move my Atom to use with my headphones on my home theater setup, and the L30 has the toggle between pre-out for my speakers and headphones which I like.

I’m just trying to understand price structure vs performance.

Well, 10 years ago, the inmates were running the asylum, so to speak, and there was little or no correlation between measured performance and price in the amp and DAC market. Because independent measurements were not available for most devices.

That's shifted a lot in the last couple of years, thanks in large part to Amir. This is not to diminish the work that others have done with posting measurements. But Amir is posting more in a week than most people (and perhaps almost everyone put together) post in a few months.

So now measured performance matters more than it did. Consequently, there's been an acceleration in developing better performing devices at lower prices which still makes price structure vs. performance evaluations problematic. Look at how the Schiit Magni and Modi line have improved in the last few years. JDS Labs has always been focused on performance, and their $100 Atom outperformed their flagship Element amp when it was released. Meanwhile we have the $300 Audioquest Cobalt that performs worse than $40 Tempotec Sonata HD Pro.

So I don't know that you will find what your looking for.

 

[mshenay]

I get it. But if spects being within lowest of possible margin, features, esthetics, build quality must be a factor determining cost. Correct?

yes. This is why this site is great. You can see (with science, no youtubers reviewers bla bla) that once a device is not flawed, they are all pretty much the same for our ears. So you should pay for features, inputs, outputs, look, build quality, etc.

Another big thing for picking the right amp is picking one with the gain options YOU need for your headphone. Again SP 200 has rather HIGH gain so for the many headphones I have that are low impedance it's not entirely suited for my system nor my headphones. So having L30 on hand which has both a vastly lower gain stage and better THD overall I get a rather noticeable improvement in clarity.

Now regarding build quality, I like that L30 volume pot has less wiggle and feels better than SP 200, but I like that SP 200 isn't using a SPSU... I'll also add that SP 200 has XLR inputs, some DACS like Schiit Modius sound vastly better out of their XLRs vs their single end'd outputs

So in my system, with my Ether CX headphone and with the E30. Yes L30 is noticeably better than SP 200... but I own a variety of other headphones so I'll be switching between them and a variety of dacs when I re-visit L30 to do a more in-depth subjective review and listen

Again with Ether CX I feel L30 is better suited to amplifying this load than SP200 but with a more demanding load SP200 my be that much better than L30... I'll post my thoughts when I work my way through them

 

[raistlin65]

If you're coming from the JDS Atom, its probably the difference in volume outputs while tested. On IEMs, even a 0.3~0.5 dB difference can make a noticeable difference. Something you cannot discern by hand or ear accurately.

Unless you physically match the output voltage values with a multimeter / volmeter and came to that conclusion, there shouldn't be significant enough differences between them for a IEM level power draw to be heard. Extremely hard to drive headphones, perhaps due to power differences but IEMs ? Extremely unlikely.

I agree. Another Atom owner here who just got the L30 tonight.

No "WOW" moment for me. I have not done an A/B comparison, but I am not hearing any difference based on my listening experience with my headphones (Focal Elear and Sennheiser HD660S). Preamp output quality seems the same between the Atom and L30 running to my ICEpower ICE125ASX2 amp/PSB Imagine XBs.

 

[JohnYang1997]

Another big thing for picking the right amp is picking one with the gain options YOU need for your headphone. Again SP 200 has rather HIGH gain so for the many headphones I have that are low impedance it's not entirely suited for my system nor my headphones. So having L30 on hand which has both a vastly lower gain stage and better THD overall I get a rather noticeable improvement in clarity.

Now regarding build quality, I like that L30 volume pot has less wiggle and feels better than SP 200, but I like that SP 200 isn't using a SPSU... I'll also add that SP 200 has XLR inputs, some DACS like Schiit Modius sound vastly better out of their XLRs vs their single end'd outputs

So in my system, with my Ether CX headphone and with the E30. Yes L30 is noticeably better than SP 200... but I own a variety of other headphones so I'll be switching between them and a variety of dacs when I re-visit L30 to do a more in-depth subjective review and listen

Again with Ether CX I feel L30 is better suited to amplifying this load than SP200 but with a more demanding load SP200 my be that much better than L30... I'll post my thoughts when I work my way through them

In real world listening, the noise performance is the most important thing. If anything is audible, other than frequency response, it will be noise. I found that high frequency noise even it's not that audible by itself, alters your perception of sound when you play music. And you can really hear the noise in late night with a quiet environment. Reducing the noise drastically can slightly make the sound more rounded, deeper, less "exciting"/irritating. It's very important for low impedance headphone/earphones.

 

[mshenay]

In real world listening, the noise performance is the most important thing. If anything is audible, other than frequency response, it will be noise. I found that high frequency noise even it's not that audible by itself, alters your perception of sound when you play music. And you can really hear the noise in late night with a quiet environment. Reducing the noise drastically can slightly make the sound more rounded, deeper, less "exciting"/irritating. It's very important for low impedance headphone/earphones.

Yup yup yup, I agree with your sentiments exactly! Mo gain is also mo noise and mo noise does exactly what you've described, it can add emphasis or excitement or sometimes just energy, HF noise in particular can detrimental

All in all the right tool for the job is always the best tool to use! An to be honest there are few "jobs" that really NEED SP 200's tooling...

Regarding Atom as some of you may remember I found it a bit insufficient for my PreFazor 2012 Audeze LCD 2.2, I'm happy to say again L30 does a better job overall than Atom with that load! So to be honest the additional $40 for L30 net's you both a more robustly built amplifier but also a more accommodating selection of gain and overall output power.

 

[zenki]

If you're coming from the JDS Atom, its probably the difference in volume outputs while tested. On IEMs, even a 0.3~0.5 dB difference can make a noticeable difference. Something you cannot discern by hand or ear accurately.

Unless you physically match the output voltage values with a multimeter / volmeter and came to that conclusion, there shouldn't be significant enough differences between them for a IEM level power draw to be heard. Extremely hard to drive headphones, perhaps due to power differences but IEMs ? Extremely unlikely.

You're probably right but still I'm a happy camper.
And this' not a sponsored/affiliated Topping deal etc, 100% bought pocket money.

 

[Veri]

I like that L30 volume pot has less wiggle and feels better than SP 200, but I like that SP 200 isn't using a SPSU...

Doesn't SP200 use an internal low noise switching PSU, just like A90?

 

[MSTARK]

Yup yup yup, I agree with your sentiments exactly! Mo gain is also mo noise and mo noise does exactly what you've described, it can add emphasis or excitement or sometimes just energy, HF noise in particular can detrimental

All in all the right tool for the job is always the best tool to use! An to be honest there are few "jobs" that really NEED SP 200's tooling...

Regarding Atom as some of you may remember I found it a bit insufficient for my PreFazor 2012 Audeze LCD 2.2, I'm happy to say again L30 does a better job overall than Atom with that load! So to be honest the additional $40 for L30 net's you both a more robustly built amplifier but also a more accommodating selection of gain and overall output power.

Good to know it plays nice with Audeze cans.

And without quoting every single contributor who chime in, THANK YOU.
I might seem skeptical or trolling and believe me, I am not. Just trying to understand it. Haven’t been up to date with everything that is going on in the industry lately (well, +/- 10years). Hope that explains my curiosity.
Topologies and differences in amplifier design back then were usually based on design, circuitry implementation and parts used to achieve certain goals. Based on above mentioned, product performance could be guesstimated and price (sometimes) justify.
Thank you all for your understanding and patience.

 

[odyo]

I think you need a subwoofer to hear that well. I listened on my planars then my full sized speakers, clearly some subbass was happening but it wasn’t substantial volume.

Ananda sounds like its thin diaphragm gonna rip lol. I think this is good at showing differences between amps. This is where i noticed the difference between sbx ae5 and thx 789. I don't know why they sound different. Both should have inaudible noise.

 

[Yuno]

Photo pls? And serial number.
As per power cable length, I'll see the feedback from more users. If many report this, I'll change that in the future.

What is the length of cable right now, out of curiosity? And connector dimensions while we are at it. Just want to know if I will need to procure extender cable.

 

[Jimbob54]

Dynamics, transparency, low end control in comparison to other topologies? I know you guys don’t use flowery, descriptive epithets but how how do you determine differences between this amp and amp “B”? 0.006 vs 0.00006 THD doesn’t mean much if there’s indistinguishable difference in sound presentation. Am I wrong?

At those levels sound presentation should be indistinguishable if they have the low enough output impedance so as not to affect frequency response on any normal set of cans, and has enough power to drive whatever you are using. Assuming one isnt noisy as hell.

 

[JohnYang1997]

What is the length of cable right now, out of curiosity? And connector dimensions while we are at it. Just want to know if I will need to procure extender cable.

1.2m same as most other products.

 

[Jimbob54]

I’m just trying to understand price structure vs performance. Like I’ve said, I’m not familiar with THX/NFCA topologies so don’t take offense to my question. But from reviews and statements that I’ve come across, most reference these amps as “powerhouses” without sound of its own. So, if there are minute differences between flagship and “basic” entry level offering, are we paying premium for features and esthetics only?

Lets put it this way, I think even @JohnYang1997 has said if you only want single ended Topping amplifier, get this over the A90. So yes, you pay extra for features and aesthetics, as with every consumer product. The real question is what amps are available from other manufs. that provide the power and performance levels this does for comparable price. But the A90 has balanced inputs and outputs as preamp.

 

[Yuno]

1.2m same as most other products.

Yeah, that's way too short imo. For me about 2m is perfect. Take into account that not everyone just routes cables straight from power strip to their devices, in my case I route all my cables around the desk in attempt to manage my cables nicely. Typical desk height is 70cm, that leaves only 50cm of extra length when going in straight line from power strip on the floor to edge of desk.
Then again, I don't really care all that much - I use extenders commonly because as you said, this kind of "too short" length is common.

 

[JohnYang1997]

Just made some reality check and asked around. 1.2m is already really long. It's 1.2 meters....
It's definitely long enough for 70cm tall desk if you don't put the power strip far away.
So what's the deal. 2m is impossible. That damn cable is gonna be longer than me. Not gonna happen. On the other hand, I can see the value of 1.5m cable. But keep in mind, many of us have power strip on the desk. So over 1 meter of extra cable is not really helpful, and genuinely difficult to deal with. So like the second guy said, he uses extension chord(it's 2.5mm pin jack instead of 2.1mm so need a bit of concern).
We can make it 1.5m for next batch. But I just want to know if it makes other people's life harder (because 1.2m chord has been used since like forever).