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WolfX700 Measurement of Topping L30 Headphone Amp

Bhargu

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Again, in theory yes. But I don’t think you could guarantee results that would suit every one. Have you ever heard speakers with almost flat frequency response? I have, didn’t like it. Boring, not engaging, flat is how I would describe it. But they sold a bunch of those so somebody did like it enough.

True, you can't guarantee result suited for everyone. But as I said, with software filter chains, using a reference DAC/Amp, you can customize the same gear for multiple people's taste. Enough research has gone into it, but consumer products are lacking as there is not much money to be made in it right now. What I am saying is, the same hardware can be used whether you like reference sound or warm sound by using customized preset filter chains fine-tuned for each use case.
 

Bhargu

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Well, if by "component matching" one means to put together a system consisting of components that do their assigned task (such as converting or amplifying) without otherwise altering the signal they are processing then sure it's a real thing.

Well, you can take an amp with a sub-bass dip and pair it with a headphone with an equivalent sub-bass boost and probably get a close-to-reference sound. I would rather have a reference amp and do a software equalization for the probable non-linearity in the headphone. I believe you can achieve near-reference quality in Amp/DAC affordably in 2020, but headphones/speakers are not there yet.
 

Sgt. Ear Ache

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Well, you can take an amp with a sub-bass dip and pair it with a headphone with an equivalent sub-bass boost and probably get a close-to-reference sound. I would rather have a reference amp and do a software equalization for the probable non-linearity in the headphone. I believe you can achieve near-reference quality in Amp/DAC affordably in 2020, but headphones/speakers are not there yet.

well sure you can. Or you can get a good, neutral amp and EQ that sub bass boost away and also be able to use any other headphones of your choice with that amp since it's neutral and not "tuned" to a specific transducer...

Buying an amp with a coloration to fix some flaw in a speaker or headphone seems more like "dumb" rather than "synergy" to me.
 

Eetu

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Amps is a bit different animal as I believe amp should complete speaker/headphone and bring the most out of it. Either by compensating for its flaws or emphasizing its strengths.
I disagree completely, they all should be as transparent as possible. If a well-measuring, clean amp makes your speakers sound harsh, get better speakers (and so on).

Euphonic distortion & uneven freq response introduces artifacts/coloration that isn't there on the original recording. Don't you want to hear the recordings (as close as possible) how the artist/engineer intended..? In any case you can always EQ/DSP a low-distortion system to sound 'analog' but not the other way around.
 

MSTARK

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True, you can't guarantee result suited for everyone. But as I said, with software filter chains, using a reference DAC/Amp, you can customize the same gear for multiple people's taste. Enough research has gone into it, but consumer products are lacking as there is not much money to be made in it right now. What I am saying is, the same hardware can be used whether you like reference sound or warm sound by using customized preset filter chains fine-tuned for each use case.
That makes sense. I just haven’t seen it in consumer grade products done right. If products like that hit the market, I would be interested to try one. Perhaps they already exist? I’m just not aware of any.
 

Sukie

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I’m with you on board as far as dac (source) and it’s job is concern. It should be as transparent as possible without adding anything to the signal path. Amps is a bit different animal as I believe amp should complement speaker/headphone and bring the most out of it. Either by compensating for its flaws or emphasising its strengths.
This makes no sense to me. You would need a separate amp for each speaker/headphone. The only part of the set up that actually produces sound is the speaker/headphone. If you get a transparent DAC and a transparent amp (easy to do) then you can equalise the sound until you find what works for you. Surely you can do this with a whole range of speakers and headphones. Maybe I'm missing something.
 

MSTARK

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I disagree completely, they all should be as transparent as possible. If a well-measuring, clean amp makes your speakers sound harsh, get better speakers (and so on).

Euphonic distortion & uneven freq response introduces artifacts/coloration that isn't there on the original recording. Don't you want to hear the recordings (as close as possible) how the artist/engineer intended..? In any case you can always EQ/DSP a low-distortion system to sound 'analog' but not the other way around.

Not always. It wouldn't apply (at least I wouldn’t dare do it) to vinyl reproduction as it would defeat the purpose of keeping the signal in analogue domain. Also, there is an issue of PC not being part of the system. For instance, I don’t have PC in my main listening rig but I do use headphones on occasions. Either for monitoring, reference or my vinyl pleasure. In that scenario, matching components to headphones is kinda crucial. Any thought?
 

MSTARK

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This makes no sense to me. You would need a separate amp for each speaker/headphone. The only part of the set up that actually produces sound is the speaker/headphone. If you get a transparent DAC and a transparent amp (easy to do) then you can equalise the sound until you find what works for you. Surely you can do this with a whole range of speakers and headphones. Maybe I'm missing something.

I use speakers/headphone in that context as an example of transducers in the audio chain. Not a reference to my personal rig.
As a side note:
My headphones and speakers are certainly a separate system as far as amplification goes. Headphones in stereo/speakers system do share output from streamer/dac and phonostage thought. Sorry for confusion.
L30 will be in a different setup. With D50, mac-mini and other crap (various little headphone amps and another DAC) . No speakers in this rig.
 

solderdude

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Hello guys.
So recently i got dt990 600ohms and i was on the market for an amp and i was looking to liquid spark that i read it tames the treble of the dt990 a little bit. Due to covid19 the liquid spark is only avaiable by september and then i heard about the new topping L30 and was ondering how it compares to liquid spark and if it matches well and divres well the dt990 600ohms.?

Thanks

There are no amps that 'tame' the treble. EQ or a filter is the only thing that can do this.
Both L30 and liguid spark will work with the 600 Ohm Beyer.
The Liquid Spark has 1.4dB more headroom, the L30 has lower distortion (both below audible thresholds)
 

velasfloyd

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amps should amp the signal. Nothing more, nothing less. If you say someone put some effort in making them special (tube sounding, bass enhancer, warm, sterile, more soundstage, clinical, treble bla bla bla) then this must to be shown in the measures as well. We dont listen magic ethereal particles. Everything claimed should be discovered in the graphics.

please read more measures from Amir. You can start with the mojo dac/amp for example. There you have 4000 pages in headfi claiming magic from this little device... and here you see how “normal” it is.

and you can continue reading another famous ones, and you will see the truth in this business: most of the people just claim BS to sell.

dont believe in manufacturers specs and claims. And dont trust your ears neither (unless you can take your brain apart from the listening process, making a volume matched blind test (a real one)). The brain is such a powerful machine that can make you believe anything. We all have been there.

if you come here please realize how in almost every thread new people come with the very same (heafi-alike) ideas, and starts an endless discussion about the very same topics. I would say to all that people, before posting their own believes, read and read the forum. You can still have the truth, but at least you will know for sure how people thinks here.
 

solderdude

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For instance, I don’t have PC in my main listening rig but I do use headphones on occasions. Either for monitoring, reference or my vinyl pleasure. In that scenario, matching components to headphones is kinda crucial. Any thought?

How would you plan to do that there is nothing to 'match'. You can of course use the wrong amp (with the wrong properties) with the wrong headphones. The L30 can handle all headphones equally.
When you want to have an all analog amplifier that can 'compensate' for headphone deficiencies there is only 1 design I know that can actually do this. It is strictly DIY though. ;)
 

MSTARK

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L30 is literally perfect single ended product. There is no competition. If you want balanced THX 789-887 and A90 is way to go. Sp200's low gain is not low enough especially for sensitive headphones. Many people reported noise with those.

Thank you. That was very helpful.
 

MSTARK

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How would you plan to do that there is nothing to 'match'. You can of course use the wrong amp (with the wrong properties) with the wrong headphones. The L30 can handle all headphones equally.
When you want to have an all analog amplifier that can 'compensate' for headphone deficiencies there is only 1 design I know that can actually do this. It is strictly DIY though. ;)

I don’t mind DIY route. Not an engeneer but I can solder alright. Lol

That’s why it’s a little tricky to match amp to headphones I use in my main rig on occasions. Audeze LCDX are a bit (a lot) darker then Aeon2 open. These are totally different sounding cans. And my though process was to utilize both amps (sort of a hybrid), Inspire IHA1 and L30 to get that hybrid setup that might possibly work with both cans??? Keep in mind, no PC in this room. If it works, I would probably order something else from topping (perhaps that new A50S) and move L30 into secondary bedroom setup. That’s basically the story.
 

solderdude

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Given the fact that both headphones are planar and that both amps can just as easily drive these headphones I do not see any reason why the L30 would 'complement' the IHA1 in such a way that it would change the tonal balance/signature.
Why buy an L30 when you already own audio jewelry... the only reason would be to downsize the setup if you want to replace it.
What would be the goal you want to achieve here ?
 

CedarWind108

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Live sound goes thru a lot of processing during production. Reproducing the digital result of that accurately may not be what we should obsess over.

Accurate reproduction of the digital file might not actually mean it’s accurate and true to what was being recorded live.

Reproducing sound in a way that makes it more life like might be far more important and actually a lot more accurate than reproducing it in a way that measures in a way that corresponds to the digital file most accurately.
 

mt196

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Live sound goes thru a lot of processing during production. Reproducing the digital result of that accurately may not be what we should obsess over.

Accurate reproduction of the digital file might not actually mean it’s accurate and true to what was being recorded live.

Reproducing sound in a way that makes it more lifelike might be far more important and actually a lot more accurate than reproducing it in a way that measures in a way that corresponds to the digital file most accurately.
Adding distortions cannot solve the problem, it just masks the possible errors during productions. If production is done correctly, a good measuring audio chain will give the life-like feeling that most of the "audiophiles" claim their stuff produce.
 

MSTARK

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Given the fact that both headphones are planar and that both amps can just as easily drive these headphones I do not see any reason why the L30 would 'complement' the IHA1 in such a way that it would change the tonal balance/signature.
Why buy an L30 when you already own audio jewelry... the only reason would be to downsize the setup if you want to replace it.
What would be the goal you want to achieve here ?
Given the fact that both headphones are planar and that both amps can just as easily drive these headphones I do not see any reason why the L30 would 'complement' the IHA1 in such a way that it would change the tonal balance/signature.
Why buy an L30 when you already own audio jewelry... the only reason would be to downsize the setup if you want to replace it.
What would be the goal you want to achieve here ?
No, not replacing it. Yes, it can drive both cans. And yes, it sounds pretty good. However, as in any tube amp design there are few shortcomings. Even though it doesn't sound like any of those syrupy, lush, classic tube designs (it's pretty transparent for what it is) it can't match well designed solid state amplifier in bass rendition, impact and quickness. Top end (anywhere from 4K to 8/10K) seems fine but I feel that it could use a bit of "sparkle", definition, extention if you will (hard to describe it). I don't think that top end of Inspire IHA1 is significantly rolled off but tubes that came stock with this amp might be. Aeons on the other hand are like hand in glove with this amp and need absolutely nothing. Aggressive top end and robust bass of Aeons complement Dragon's inheritance of common tube circuitry flaws. This amp is king of midrange and soundstage tho.

My though process looks like this:
DAC/streamer/phonostage into Dragon
Dragon pre-out to L30
Hooking up LCDXs to L30 would give hybrid "effect". Tube preamp and SS amp. Hopefully compensating for less then optimal top end and bass extention of Dragon but with some of that midrange glory coming from tubes. Of cause both amps could be utilized, depending on music choice and source. I think it could be an interesting experiment.
Aeons would probably be hooked up to Inspire amp permanently. But who knows, perhaps it can play nice with L30 as well.
If that works, I would replace L30 with similar design amp but with a bit more setup flexibility and options.
 
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raistlin65

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Low gain performance is similiar to high gain performance of THX 789. SP200 low gain is +6db. L30 low gain -9db, med gain 0db. THX 789 low gain -10, med gain 0 db.

I see. Doesn't have much of a low gain. I could see how that would be a problem for very sensitive low impedance IEMs. But I would be surprised if the LCDX has a problem with that.
 
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