WolfX700 Measurement of Topping L30 Headphone Amp

[raif71]

It is a rather good review but i disagree with his 2 main negatives:
1. Power: As proven in objective reviews on this site the L30 has plenty of power and it seems like he had other problems than the L30 not having enough power.
2. Soundstage: He talks about balanced and unbalanced in relation to soundstage and makes it sound like you NEED balanced because unbalanced can't provide the best soundstage. I think this is a very subjective statement and far from the truth.

No 1 is spot on, on not having enough power but on some sources especially classical music sources. I played Carlos Kleiber conducting Beethoven 5th and 7th symphonies (dsd 64) and I experienced what Sandu probably experienced when he played his Beatles (if I got it correctly). On 0db, I maxed out on the volume and had to get to high gain and I settled around 3 o'clock using Senn hd600. Other sources like current pop/rock I'm happy to say that using 0db, the volume headroom is satisfying. I'm not particularly picky about the "inadequate" power issue while playing Beethoven's source I just mentioned coz I experienced the same issue while using Atom at normal gain. Using high gain on the Atom, I got to 3 o'clock too so I conclude that power wise, the l30 is about the same with Atom. Of course, if one uses other headphones or iems with lower impedance, you might not maxed out the volume on 0db. YMMV. I'm using e30 dac for both amps.

 

[zenki]

Heck didn't even pass 9 o'clock on most IEMs on both Atom & L30.
The gain switch doesn't really do much.

 

[asd1]

On 0db, I maxed out on the volume and had to get to high gain and I settled around 3 o'clock using Senn hd600.

I have the E30/L30 combo, and have the HD6XX. At high gain (+9db) and 3 o'clock is completely deafening for me, also playing Carlos Kleiber Symphony no5.

The E30 is in dac mode, are you running dac more or pre mode and perhaps not at its full volume?

 

[raif71]

I have the E30/L30 combo, and have the HD6XX. At high gain (+9db) and 3 o'clock is completely deafening for me, also playing Carlos Kleiber Symphony no5.

The E30 is in dac mode, are you running dac more or pre mode and perhaps not at its full volume?

So, how did you do on 0 db, volume till 6 o'clock (max) ? I was using dac mode on the e30

 

[asd1]

So, how did you do on 0 db, volume till 6 o'clock (max) ? I was using dac mode on the e30

No that would be deafening, i only get to 11am at 0db gain. To give you an idea, on 0db gain, i pushed it to 6 o'clock and measured the sound level using an app on my phone, it went well over 93db during peaks. Thats far too loud for me.

Perhaps then a software volume control is limiting the levels then. Otherwise, you must simply like it very loud.

 

[raistlin65]

Using high gain on the Atom, I got to 3 o'clock too so I conclude that power wise, the l30 is about the same with Atom. Of course, if one uses other headphones or iems with lower impedance, you might not maxed out the volume on 0db. YMMV. I'm using e30 dac for both amps.

Based on Amir's measurements of the L30 with 2V input, the L30 can do 117mw at 300 ohms. His Atom measurements show 250mw. So +3db more output for the Atom.

 

[raif71]

Based on Amir's measurements of the L30 with 2V input, the L30 can do 117mw at 300 ohms. His Atom measurements show 250mw. So +3db more output for the Atom.

Ok, nice to know... so a +3db change is a perceptible change in volume, right? ie slightly louder on the Atom? Something could be broken with my hd600 as I got it 2nd hand...I will try with 6xx (also 2nd hand) the next time I bring out the atom/l30/e30 from their boxes. Waiting for a desk now.

 

[raif71]

No that would be deafening, i only get to 11am at 0db gain. To give you an idea, on 0db gain, i pushed it to 6 o'clock and measured the sound level using an app on my phone, it went well over 93db during peaks. Thats far too loud for me.

Perhaps then a software volume control is limiting the levels then. Otherwise, you must simply like it very loud.

I suppose you're using your phone as transport to the e30 dac (assuming you're using the e30). I'm using Hiby R5 as transport. What software app are you using to measure the sound level. I might try it on the Hiby R5 as it is an android DAP. Thanks

 

[asd1]

I suppose you're using your phone as transport to the e30 dac

Spotify (Mac) -> USB -> E30 (DAC Mode) -> L30

Tried the first one i found, DecibelX on an iphone.

 

[Atanasi]

Based on Amir's measurements of the L30 with 2V input, the L30 can do 117mw at 300 ohms. His Atom measurements show 250mw. So +3db more output for the Atom.

You can also see this directly from high gain multipliers: Atom has 4.5 (13 dB), while L30 has 3 (9.5 dB).

 

[solderdude]

Correct, but only if the loudest one isn't clipping yet at 2.1V (E30 FS) in which the Atom will start to do at 8.66V while the calculated voltage would be 9.45V
The L30 would not be clipping yet, the Atom will be a little.

 

[zenki]

is clipping the term where the sounds start breaking down like playing hi-vol in a cheap speaker (the sound get distorted)?

 

[JohnYang1997]

is clipping the term where the sounds start breaking down like playing hi-vol in a cheap speaker (the sound get distorted)?

Electrically clipping. It happens where the voltage rail is hit(or current limit). Literally more voltage (or current) cannot be provided.

 

[zenki]

That means the sound actually got cut off?

 

[JohnYang1997]

That means the sound actually got cut off?

No. Distortion shoots up. And SPiKe protection kicks in. The output is opened only when there's DC.

 

[solderdude]

is clipping the term where the sounds start breaking down like playing hi-vol in a cheap speaker (the sound get distorted)?

In general very short and occasional 'clipping' of small transients isn't very audible, or at least sound degrading too much. When there is more clipping it becomes audible as 'roughening' of the sound. When it goes even further the sound quality is getting worse and starts to sound distorted.

It's not entirely the same as with speakers as peak power handling is somewhat different, assuming its the amp clipping.

If you want to hear what clipping sounds like then you can slowly move the volume control of, for instance, the VLC player above 100% or use another program to increase the level. It's not entirely similar to amplifier clipping but it will give an idea of what clipping sounds like.
Once you heard it you will easily recognize it.

As John already mentioned clipping is basically the output signal level reaching a ceiling. In most cases the ceiling is the internal power supply voltage rails. In reality it will be slightly lower due to output devices that may not reach the voltage rails.

 

[Veri]

Clipping sounds nasty.

 

[Jimbob54]

Clipping sounds nasty.

It's the aural equivalent of running your hand blindfolded on what you think should be a well finished handrail and instead finding it not even sanded.

 

[usern]

But i think the main advantages of balanced is that you get an even cleaner signal and more power and thats about it.

My guess is that balanced outputs have much less crosstalk. Check the crosstalk specs of A50s for example:

 

[jasonhanjk]

My guess is that balanced outputs have much less crosstalk. Check the crosstalk specs of A50s for example:

Not really true. Balance output main advantage is more voltage swing with a limited DC voltage supply.

By the way, the -86dB crosstalk is base on what load?
Both 32ohm and 300ohm will have different crosstalk value.