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WolfX700 Measurement of SMSL M300 MkII Edition

BogdanR

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...
It just trashes the device...looks awefully cheap.
Displays like those are only acceptable with devices under 100€!

It may help to remember that not so long ago, DACs with similar measured performance used to cost an arm and a leg plus partial custody of your first born. And currently, some brands charge the price of a small to medium car for measured performance that may not be substantially better, but may sometimes be worse. You get nice displays however and perhaps an absolutely splendid enclosure, all of which have the same influence over the sound as a diamond ring.

So 100€ affords today a level of musical enjoyment that was unheard of just a few years ago. I for one, I’m grateful.
 

Magnifico

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Oh my....that old song.
Back in the days....humans lived in caves. So what?

We need to compare things fair not apples to oranges.
This display in a 100€ device....no argument theregive it a limit up to 150€ MAX....those displays in devices 250-400€....not okay.
We can see that there is better stuff....within SMSL themselves. Named them already....M300/M500.
Though I admit...prices have to be told....we are talking about unreleased stuff.
Maybe they just put any cent given into the sound....from what I´ve seen so far....that may even be the case.
Just let´s wait for the prices...then we have a base to argue about.

Other than that....today I received a notice from hifiexpress....My M300MKII is on the road by China Mail and the M100 from chinese german-ebay seller will arrive tomorrow from hamburg where many of those obviously store their stuff.
I guess....China Mail will take about 20 working days....so my M100 order wasw not useless.
 

mks

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I just received my mkII a few hours ago. It sounds no different than the v1 to me. Sadly, the dedicated power supply made no difference from the single Usb port on the v1 in terms of the usb noise. I still have to use the idefender to mitigate that. But I'm still going to keep the mkII over the v1 because of the welcomed new features, especially the remote control. I haven't tried bluetooth yet but honestly don't see myself using that to often anyway. Nonetheless, it's nice to know it's there if I do need it. With these new features, I feel the mkII trumps the su-8 as the best balanced dac in this price range. I'll need another week with it to really make a solid opinion but as of right now, this thing ticks 95% of my boxes. I couldn't be any happier.
 

Magnifico

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WHY do you think it should have help with the ground loop ???
It´s still a ground look.
XLR is said to help with it.
 

mks

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WHY do you think it should have help with the ground loop ???
It´s still a ground look.
XLR is said to help with it.

It was just wishful thinking. The knock on the v1 was that the Usb port shared the power and data stream. I thought I would just point out that it made no difference to me. I have xlr's running from the dac to a passive switch thats connected to an sp200 and a loxjie p20 with xlr's. I also have rca's running from the switch to a minidsp hd connected to a micca ad250 2 channel amp but even with that disconnected it still has that hum without the idefender. I get your point though. My system is probably just noisey. The idefender is a godsend to me.
 

Magnifico

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That´s okay :)
I have those hopes too....some magic would help....but that hardly happens, eh? ;)

/EDIT: Since I suffer from this too...I´m searching for help too....
See what I´ve found....instead of using very expensive USB-Filters....
https://www.amazon.de/Audioproject-A259-Entstörfilter-AutoRadio-Cinch-Stecker/dp/B079DXBRB8/ref=sr_1_19?__mk_de_DE=ÅMÅŽÕÑ&keywords=masseschleife&qid=1580577202&sr=8-19
Isn´t that an idea too?
I´ll try it....but then I´ll need something for XLR in the future....

To go nuts I additionally I ordered those too:
https://www.ebay.de/itm/5-Stk-5mm-D...136169?hash=item48dc633ba9:g:pikAAOSwPqZeFfWS

ah found the XLR-Stuff
https://www.ebay.de/itm/Hosa-GLT-25...466022?hash=item3d01b247a6:g:p1kAAOSwPcVVlCzm
 
Last edited:

mks

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That´s okay :)
I have those hopes too....some magic would help....but that hardly happens, eh? ;)

/EDIT: Since I suffer from this too...I´m searching for help too....
See what I´ve found....instead of using very expensive USB-Filters....
https://www.amazon.de/Audioproject-A259-Entstörfilter-AutoRadio-Cinch-Stecker/dp/B079DXBRB8/ref=sr_1_19?__mk_de_DE=ÅMÅŽÕÑ&keywords=masseschleife&qid=1580577202&sr=8-19
Isn´t that an idea too?
I´ll try it....but then I´ll need something for XLR in the future....

To go nuts I additionally I ordered those too:
https://www.ebay.de/itm/5-Stk-5mm-D...136169?hash=item48dc633ba9:g:pikAAOSwPqZeFfWS

ah found the XLR-Stuff
https://www.ebay.de/itm/Hosa-GLT-25...466022?hash=item3d01b247a6:g:p1kAAOSwPcVVlCzm


That's pretty interesting stuff. For my case, I pinpointed the noise. It was definitely the Usb ports on my pc. The thing I like about the idefender, from what I understand, is that it works by shutting off the power source to the Usb port rather than filtering out or adding frequencies. It attacks the ground loop by taking it out of the equation.
 

bequietjk

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When connected to any PC USB port, my Fiio D3 seems to transmit a very noisy buzzing to my THX 789. When I use my cell phone charger to power my D3 the buzzing is gone.

In my experience, it's safe to say that USB ports on the PC can be very problematic and I encourage those to try out different methods for powering devices.
 

mks

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When connected to any PC USB port, my Fiio D3 seems to transmit a very noisy buzzing to my THX 789. When I use my cell phone charger to power my D3 the buzzing is gone.

In my experience, it's safe to say that USB ports on the PC can be very problematic and I encourage those to try out different methods for powering devices.


I agree. Although my sp200 doesn't have any buzzing at all. It's the loxjie p20 SE output that gives me problems without the idefender. It's really strange. I just figured the thx tech was doing a bang up job. At first I thought the p20 was the problem before I tested the Usb ports on my pc and realized thats where the noise was coming from.
 

Magnifico

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I´m not sure you understood the whole mass loop problematics.
Or it is me? Without the RCA or XLR there is no mass loop if im wrong....the noise on the usb ports is from this ground loop.
It feels different...but it is just the ground loop making SSD, graphics and what not else "sound".

Best proof of that....running the Fiio BTR5 als DAC coming into the RCAs of my SP200...NOISY as hell....taking out the SP200 out of the signal....using the amp within the BTR5....SAME USB PORT.....absolute silence!!!

I ordered all that stuff linked up there...I will be able to tell what helps. The ferrit cores won´t help anything with the ground loop....but will be there to clean other stuff out of the cables which they are prooven to do.
 

mks

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I´m not sure you understood the whole mass loop problematics.
Or it is me? Without the RCA or XLR there is no mass loop if im wrong....the noise on the usb ports is from this ground loop.
It feels different...but it is just the ground loop making SSD, graphics and what not else "sound".

Best proof of that....running the Fiio BTR5 als DAC coming into the RCAs of my SP200...NOISY as hell....taking out the SP200 out of the signal....using the amp within the BTR5....SAME USB PORT.....absolute silence!!!

I ordered all that stuff linked up there...I will be able to tell what helps. The ferrit cores won´t help anything with the ground loop....but will be there to clean other stuff out of the cables which they are prooven to do.


You're probably right. I'm learning as I go along. Unfortunately, it's usually the hard and expensive way. Damn this hobby. I get what you're getting at. Could you explain why I would be getting the buzzing on one amp and not the other when connected the same way(xlr), with the same dac? idefender mitigates the noise on the p20 but makes no difference with the sp200. Sp200 is always silent for me. Also, i don't get any noise through the balanced output on the p20 either, just the SE.
 

Magnifico

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So items arrived today....ANY noise is gone now...where the iDefender worked with the D50s like a charm....it´s now dead or doesn´t work with every device....

M100 is now SILENT
Formerly unbearable noises of the BTR5 GONE

This MUCH CHEAPER way of stopping the ground loop works even better than that 50€ iDefender.
I´ll return it to get back my money.
 

mks

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So items arrived today....ANY noise is gone now...where the iDefender worked with the D50s like a charm....it´s now dead or doesn´t work with every device....

M100 is now SILENT
Formerly unbearable noises of the BTR5 GONE

This MUCH CHEAPER way of stopping the ground loop works even better than that 50€ iDefender.
I´ll return it to get back my money.

Nice! Did you notice any change or distortion in the sub bass with the rca isolator? I had an mpow 3.5mm isolator that distorted the bass below 40hz.
 

Magnifico

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Didn´t do much testing....but so far....everyting is fine.
Look out for the best option though....there are some other products with worse frequency range.
Mine has 20-33K which is the best I could find including expensive stuff from oehlbach ect.
Those for 3,5mm plug didn´t look very promising as much as I saw them while looking for mine here.

@Veri....obiously both will work because they do the same... those XLR-Adapters just cut the mass from the plug as it is not needed.
Since SMSL didn´t send the M300 I´m not able to test it myself...but it´s a well known method over the net.
WITHOUT any danger mind you...messing around with the mass itself on one of the devices is dangerous though.
If you don´t care....you could mess with you XLR-cable itself and cut it manually...To save the money for those adapters.

Now iDefender AND M100 are no more needed....and will be returned.
Now my BTR5 works without ANY noise.....aaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhh :)
And for a device it´s size...WOW does it sound good.
 

Magnifico

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Cosmic Gate - Firewire
Yves Deruyter - In my electric house
Soundlovers - Run-A-Way
X-Cabs - Neuro

If you think there are better Songs to test....tell me....maybe i´ve got them in an adequate quality for such purposes.

To earbleeding levels....I can´t hear bass distortion on my DT1990s

There was no noise other than those in the recordings...
The XLR-Way should be even without any loss in Quality, because you don´t filter anything.
 

mks

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Cosmic Gate - Firewire
Yves Deruyter - In my electric house
Soundlovers - Run-A-Way
X-Cabs - Neuro

If you think there are better Songs to test....tell me....maybe i´ve got them in an adequate quality for such purposes.

To earbleeding levels....I can´t hear bass distortion on my DT1990s

There was no noise other than those in the recordings...
The XLR-Way should be even without any loss in Quality, because you don´t filter anything.


Thats awesome you got everything working the way you wanted. The 3.5mm isolator I used was this one:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01N10AQ76/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

It says it's rated to be distortion free at 20hz but this was not the case for me. The products you mentioned would run me around $28 here so I think I'll just stick to the idefender for it's simplicity and the fact that it just works for me. But it's good to know other alternatives. Thanks.
 

jhaider

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This MKII version should theoretically be improved, but because I have not measured the M300, I decided not to think about it.

I recently picked up the M300 Mk. I, and I am impressed. The original version was a little cheaper, Bluetooth is an unwanted complication, and I prefer the standard RCA coax over a minijack adapter.

There is no turn on or turn off thump. The noise floor is extremely low. I can turn the KH 80 DSP input sensitivity practically up to max in the iPad app without intolerable hiss. That makes M300 leagues quieter than miniDSP DDRC24 over USB and even several dB quieter than two decent USB interfaces (Focusrite Clarett 2Pre, Apogee Duet 2).

Signal chain for the above is MacBook Pro --USB--> miniDSP Studio SHD --coax--> SMSL M300 --XLR--> Neumann KH 80 DSP.

(Why Studio SHD instead of SHD with its confirmed excellent built-in DAC? Form factor. There is no room on my desk for a 1RU component. If SHD were half rack wide and 2RU high, or Studio SHD size with a DB25 breakout, I would have gone that way.)

Also as a practical matter M300 will turn back on after you disconnect it from power (as opposed to defaulting into standby) so it can be used with switching power strips. It also remembers the last output used. Boot up time is quick, too. Overall it seems like an excellent DAC at a great price. I'm probably going to add one of less expensive DACs for the subs as well.
 
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