With EQ, HD 600 or HD 650?

[L5730]

Sorry if this has been asked before, I know the basic 600 vs. 650 question has been asked elsewhere an that's answerable in terms of FR/tone preference.

I have been putting all sorts into searches and haven't found a definite answer on this particular subject.
The HD 600 is a little cheaper and is an older model, the HD 650 is a little more expensive and slightly newer. However, there is evidence of subtle revisions of both.

If one is prepared to apply DSP EQ, which is the preferable model?

If I understand things correctly, the HD 650 is slightly easier to drive and has slightly less distortion, making it preferred. But really if one EQ'd both to a specific common target, the differences are probably rather small, if noticeable at all?

Thanks.

 

[MRC01]

They're both great headphones. You can't go wrong with either one. They are similar, though the 650 sounds darker, the 600 brighter. To my ears, the differences are noticeable yet small, and DSP EQ can make them disappear. I could get used to either one.
@solderdude has a good comparison at his site.

 

[L5730]

Yeah, the differences in tone between them as-is has been documented lots of places.
So, what you are saying is that either could be made to sound almost indistinguishable from the other with EQ?

I note that the strange colourful finish on the old HD 600 has been replaced with something boring or less tacky, depending on preference. Also both now come with a low cost cardboard box rather than the nicely hinged and foam-padded box they used to. What is clear is that if in the US, buy the HD6XX, if in Europe we're getting screwed over.

 

[solderdude]

The HD650 driver is rated 500mW, the HD600 driver is rated 200mW
The drivers also have different part numbers so do differ, not only in damping (foamies under the spider).

Tonally they can be made to sound very similar.
The HD600 I measured had channel imbalance.
Haven't seen this (at least not in the lows) in HD650.

 

[andreasmaaan]

HD6XX comes up on eBay pretty frequently in the EU. I can see there are a couple of (used) pairs on German eBay Kleinanzeigen right now (asking €185).

 

[raistlin65]

You might also want to look into the HD560S

https://diyaudioheaven.wordpress.com/headphones/measurements/brands-s-se/hd-560s/

Early testimonials from people getting them in over at Head-Fi are a lot of people (not everyone) like them better than HD650 and HD600. So definitely worth throwing in the mix for consideration.

 

[AnalogSteph]

HD650 treble response has always looked somewhat smoother to me in measurements. That would potentially make them a bit more EQ-friendly.

 

[JohnYang1997]

With EQ, go for HD560s.

 

[robertozappala]

With EQ, go for HD560s.

New 560s?

 

[JohnYang1997]

New 560s?

Yea.

 

[robertozappala]

Yea.

I plan to buy it when it is available in Italy, thanks to @solderdude!

 

[L5730]

My question was really more just something I was musing over, as in what are the textural and other differences between HD 600 and 650 once EQ'd to the same sound.
It seems that the new HD 560s is an interesting choice to also throw into this mix.

Off topic: I dunno about the lump in side the HD560s, that seems like it might be annoying. Price is very good though. ~ £170 here in UK.

 

[Jose Hidalgo]

I've been asking myself the same question a few weeks ago.

I think it also depends on what you want to do with these headphones : will they be your only pair, or will you have different pairs for different types of music ? Do you listen primarily to one genre, or do you listen to a bit of everything ?

In my case, I have several pairs, and I wanted a pair specifically for vocal and acoustic stuff. After a lot of thinking, between the Sennheiser models and also between Sennheiser and other brands, I settled on the HD600. Because they have a smaller, more intimate, kind of "in your head" soundstage than the others (which fits nicely vocal and acoustic stuff), plus they are great on the midrange texture side. They may not have the lowest bass or the crispiest highs, they may not be as modern and analytical as the 660S, but their mids are part of their legendary reputation, and their price isn't too expensive either. There's a reason why they've been around for 30 years and Sennheiser never really replaced them with the 650/660S : because those two aren't clearly "better", just "different". They may be better in some aspects, and worse in others. And the discussion between these three will probably go on forever, for that precise reason.

However, if I only wanted ONE pair of headphones to do everything, then... I would maybe not go with Sennheiser, lol. In that price range, I would probably buy a pair of Sundara for 350 €. Or on the Sennheiser side, I would go for the 660S as they are the most modern / technical / analytical / polyvalent (note that I didn't say "the best HD6-- cans").

All these headphones have potential for EQ and may sound pretty much the same after EQ. Which is another reason for going with the cheapest ones which are in my case the HD600. However, they're also the hardest to drive with their 300 Ohm impedance, so you'll need a good headphone amp. If you don't have a headphone amp and don't want any, then forget about the HD600.

As for the 560S, maybe they have the EQ potential to sound as great as the others. I haven't listened to them, but the reviews seem to compare them rather to the 599, like if the 600/650/660S were still in another level. And I'm not in love with their look either, they look more like a toy (but that's my personal opinion of course).

But again, it all depends on how many pair of cans you want to own. That would help you make your decision.

 

[Bob-23]

new HD 560s

I've got the Hd600s - their strength is midrange and vocals, and, as differences to the HD650s are very small, eq'ing them should make them nearly undistinguishable. But - if you like wide soundstages, you won't find it in both of them! Of what is known until now about the 560s, these phones seem to deliver exactly that. As a soundstage lover, I'm very interested in trying them out.

 

[L5730]

Interesting points and discussion. It's appreciated.

I created this thread more as a general discussion around these models with the intention of ironing out differences with (measured) EQ. Once they have had their frequency differences flattened out, and assuming use of an amplifier* it comes down to sonic textural differences, comfort (which is quite personal), build/longevity/ease of replaceable parts etc.

So HD600 and HD650 (HD6XX) can be EQ'd to be very close.
How about HD660s and HD560s, which are the other two in this ball park?

HD560s is a different build design and is placed in the lower 5xx tier. Angled drivers is a possible plus, but the protruding lumps isn't.
HD660s follows the 6xx series trend, how would this fare in texture, speed, soundstage, smoothness once EQ'd to the same target as HD650/600?

There is another discussion on this forum on whether EQ or headphones is 'worth it'. It seems to be an accessible, high quality improvement for one's personal taste, and it seems like a rarity to find a tuning that does everything a person wants. If we're going to EQ to taste, then it'd be fab if headphone reviews could somehow EQ headphones to the same FR target (like with Sonarworks) and compare/contrast on that basis. Would be very interesting.
Reviews comparing the stock tuning are great for that, but some of the problems or benefits of such stock tuning may vanish or become more apparent after making frequency tuning a level playing field. Maybe.

* lets be realistic, the JDS Atom/Schiit Heresy/Topping E30 are all cheap enough and powerful enough. When investing >£150 in headphones an amp is par for course, unless otherwise stated (mobile use). Well, that's my opinion anyway.

 

[raistlin65]

@L5730, Crinacle has measurements plotted against HTR so you can estimate how hard it would be to EQ the headphones to that

https://crinacle.com/graphs/headphones/graphtool/

 

[Jose Hidalgo]

@L5730 just take a look at Oratory presets for all these cans, and you'll see how close we can get to the theoretical ideal (e.g. Harman curve). Each PDF has a "Preference rating" before EQ and after EQ (look towards the end).
Plus take a look at this ranking based on closeness to the ideal after EQ. You'll notice that the HD600 is remarkably well-ranked. One more reason maybe.

 

[Robin L]

Interesting points and discussion. It's appreciated.

I created this thread more as a general discussion around these models with the intention of ironing out differences with (measured) EQ. Once they have had their frequency differences flattened out, and assuming use of an amplifier* it comes down to sonic textural differences, comfort (which is quite personal), build/longevity/ease of replaceable parts etc.

So HD600 and HD650 (HD6XX) can be EQ'd to be very close.
How about HD660s and HD560s, which are the other two in this ball park?

HD560s is a different build design and is placed in the lower 5xx tier. Angled drivers is a possible plus, but the protruding lumps isn't.
HD660s follows the 6xx series trend, how would this fare in texture, speed, soundstage, smoothness once EQ'd to the same target as HD650/600?

There is another discussion on this forum on whether EQ or headphones is 'worth it'. It seems to be an accessible, high quality improvement for one's personal taste, and it seems like a rarity to find a tuning that does everything a person wants. If we're going to EQ to taste, then it'd be fab if headphone reviews could somehow EQ headphones to the same FR target (like with Sonarworks) and compare/contrast on that basis. Would be very interesting.
Reviews comparing the stock tuning are great for that, but some of the problems or benefits of such stock tuning may vanish or become more apparent after making frequency tuning a level playing field. Maybe.

* lets be realistic, the JDS Atom/Schiit Heresy/Topping E30 are all cheap enough and powerful enough. When investing >£150 in headphones an amp is par for course, unless otherwise stated (mobile use). Well, that's my opinion anyway.

I don't know how easy it is to get Drop 6XX's in the UK. Essentially a HD 650. Build quality is real good. The APO EQ works real well with these, though I suspect it work just about as well with others in the 600 series. I paid $220.00, probably paid tax, forgot if As for the 560, sounds interesting but I do not like the all-plastic build of the 5XX Sennheisers [have the 579 and 599, don't like either].

 

[Jose Hidalgo]

I don't know how easy it is to get Drop 6XX's in the UK. Essentially a HD 650. Build quality is real good. The APO EQ works real well with these, though I suspect it work just about as well with others in the 600 series. I paid $220.00, probably paid tax, forgot if As for the 560, sounds interesting but I do not like the all-plastic build of the 5XX Sennheisers [have the 579 and 599, don't like either].

Be warned though that the 650/6XX requires a much stronger EQ preset, with a gain of -10dB, where as the 600 only requires -4.9dB, and still manages to get closer to the ideal.

 

[Robin L]

Be warned though that the 650/6XX requires a much stronger EQ preset, with a gain of -10dB, where as the 600 only requires -4.9dB, and still manages to get closer to the ideal.

I've got a bit more than that, as I'm also tweakng the frequency extremes. No problem. Pulled out some techno/dance stuff early this morning and made a really "V" shaped EQ. Fantastic, like dark chocolate.