Wine Thread

[MediumRare]

Pity - but this does not explain why a (not so good) wine tasted better after 4 weeks in a weak vacuum. Possibly the vacuum was not so weak after all. If it did not work at all the wine would have transformed into vinegar ...

OK, a couple issues to help you with here
- Why did it taste better with air? Part of wine development (note, not the same as "aging") is an aerobic process. It all depends on the type of fermentation conditions the wine went through and how the wine was bottled. If the fermentation was "reductive", the wine chemically may need oxygen to stabilize. That can remove some sulfidic characters (think sewer gas), bind with tannin, and lots of other good things. Note, that's different from "aging", which should nearly always be anaerobic. So, exposure to air, even a lot of air, can be beneficial for some wine, or at least not damaging for a while.
- The vacuum is unfortunately weak in the sense it leaves enough oxygen in the bottle to react with the wine. https://www.winespectator.com/articles/do-vacuum-pump-seals-preserve-wine-54662
- Turning wine to vinegar can only happen if a bacteria called acetobacter is introduced to the wine and has the conditions to grow. So just like yeast converts sugar to alcohol, acetobacter converts ethanol to acetic acid in the presence of oxygen. But that takes quite a while - and the presence of oxygen is not enough.

Anyway, I'm glad your wine was nice when you went to drink it!

 

[SIY]

What the preservers ignore is the dissolved O2.

Scott, '96 was just about the time premox struck, Burgundy hardest hit.

 

[MediumRare]

What the preservers ignore is the dissolved O2.

Are you sure about that? Are you saying when you open the bottle, new oxygen is dissolved but then takes time to react in the wine?

My understanding the the source of the oxygen is in the headspace of the bottle - newly refreshed when you open the bottle - and that is not sufficiently removed by the vacuum pump device.

<Reference note: When a wine is bottled, usually the headspace is sparged with nitrogen and then any residual oxygen in the headspace, once dissolved in the wine, is consumed by the added sulphur dioxide. That process takes about 7 to 21 days. The amount of SO2 needed is predicted by winemakers so that enough free SO2 will remain to scavenge any oxygen that penetrates the closure during the expected storage life of the wine.>

Forgive me if I am misunderstanding you and please explain.

 

[SIY]

When you pour, a lot of oxygen gurgles in. Not the same as opening, then letting things sit undisturbed. Some dissolved O2 measurements are enlightening.

 

[pozz]

What about (I'm not sure if this is the right term) "hyperoxygenation"? Basically pouring wine into a blender and running it on high.

A sidebar question would be: how fragile are wines, really?

 

[MediumRare]

What about (I'm not sure if this is the right term) "hyperoxygenation"? Basically pouring wine into a blender and running it on high.

A sidebar question would be: how fragile are wines, really?

There are theories about "bottle shock" which posit that the wine does not taste right after both bottling and shaking, and the wine must settle for a few days at least. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bottle-shock

 

[pozz]

There are theories about "bottle shock" which posit that the wine does not taste right after both bottling and shaking, and the wine must settle for a few days at least. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bottle-shock

Interesting. The opposite of burn-in.

 

[MediumRare]

When you pour, a lot of oxygen gurgles in. Not the same as opening, then letting things sit undisturbed. Some dissolved O2 measurements are enlightening.

Yes, that's true. It's one reason some wines are decanted. Buy if you're in a hurry:
https://www.bonappetit.com/drinks/wine/article/does-the-vinturi-wine-aerator-really-improve-wine

 

[Soniclife]

Yes, that's true. It's one reason some wines are decanted. Buy if you're in a hurry:
https://www.bonappetit.com/drinks/wine/article/does-the-vinturi-wine-aerator-really-improve-wine

Was just about to ask about those gadgets, as I often prefer a big red the day after opening. Are they a good idea, or not worth the bother?

 

[LTig]

There are theories about "bottle shock" which posit that the wine does not taste right after both bottling and shaking, and the wine must settle for a few days at least. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bottle-shock

I prefer this Bottle Shock - love it.

 

[MediumRare]

Was just about to ask about those gadgets, as I often prefer a big red the day after opening. Are they a good idea, or not worth the bother?

Some wine pros actually use them at tastings, especially on wines that they believe need extra breathing time. It is undeniable there are some wines like that.

Personally, I do not use them and prefer to appreciate the wine as it changes in my glass or over the course of a meal or evening. Some improve, some don’t. For me that’s part of the pleasure.

 

[onofno]

I suggest you to try also some other wines from the same region (Tuscany):

• Brunello di Montalcino
• Morellino di Scansano
• Any wine from the Bolgheri area

Brunello di Montalcino is a VERY good wine, and I'm no Italian, but
my wife was born into a family of italian migrants who came to France after WWII. And yes wines from Tuscany are good and Tuscany deserves to be visited.

a typical bridge in Tuscany...

 

[onofno]

I know nothing about wine. The knowlegeable @MediumRare can likely change this (see this post and his others in that thread). I mostly go for Italian (any kind of chianti) or Californian reds (Rodney Strong is always nice).

Starting with a few questions:

• Is there any measurable basis for "good" wine?
• the price, the country where the wine comes from (but some wines from California today are VERY good wines, I mean they can compare to the very best in Italy or France.
• Why do men seem to prefer red over white?
• Because !... but in France and Italy most of the women drink red wine too with all kinds of meat...
• Is there any basis for pairing with food?
• Red wine with all kind of meat, white wine with fish, but I can drink red wine with fish or oysters...
• How can old bottles (20+ years aged) be safe to drink?
• 50 years old are safe to drink so 20+ ... if you can afford the price...
• Is there anything to look out for with packaging? Are there industry-specific badges, labels or marking that indicate important information?
• The most important is where the wine comes from and the price. You need to spend at least $15 to get a good wine, but some around ten could be good enough... Then the price goes up to $100 and much more for 1 bottle.
• Why does every bottle have a "contain sulfites" warning? Aren't sulfites naturally-occuring in wine?
• there should not be sulfites in organic wines.

to know more about wine : https://www.robertparker.com/

 

[scott wurcer]

Why does every bottle have a "contain sulfites" warning? Aren't sulfites naturally-occuring in wine?
there should not be sulfites in organic wines.

Myth

it is important to remember that sulfites are also a natural by-product of the yeast metabolism during fermentation. So even if you do not add any additional SO2, your wine will still contain sulfites.

 

[LF78]

Brunello di Montalcino is a VERY good wine, and I'm no Italian, but
my wife was born into a family of italian migrants who came to France after WWII. And yes wines from Tuscany are good and Tuscany deserves to be visited.

Wow, coming from a Frenchmen this is really flattering

a typical bridge in Tuscany...

Not really typical, but a landmark for sure: this is Ponte Vecchio (old bridge) in my city, Florence. Houses there are high end jewellery shops.

 

[onofno]

I love Italy... I've seen many countries but only in Italy food is a religion...
My wife family moved to France from beautiful Ischia island near Naples.
I don't speak italian - too bad - but I understand when It's written... same for spanish but I know enough spanish for using it everyday as a tourist in Spain.

 

[pozz]

@onofno Could you recommend a few nice French reds?

 

[LTig]

@onofno Could you recommend a few nice French reds?

This is what get in a local wine shop:

• Gerard Bertrand Chateau l'Hospitalet, la Reserve la Clape: ~13 €, drink after 15 years. If you have the patience you'll be rewarded with a great performance/price ration.

These wineries I've visited for a tasting:

• Cave de Tain - Croze Hermitage: ~15 €, drink after 10 years
• Chateau Rouquette sur Mer - Cuvee Henri Lapierre: ~20 €, drink after 10 years
• Mas de la Seranne - Antonin et Louis: ~20 €, drink after 10 years

The last two wineries also make reds around 10 and 15 € which are good, but those two reds listed above are outstanding.

 

[pozz]

This is what get in a local wine shop:

• Gerard Bertrand Chateau l'Hospitalet, la Reserve la Clape: ~13 €, drink after 15 years. If you have the patience you'll be rewarded with a great performance/price ration.

These wineries I've visited for a tasting:

• Cave de Tain - Croze Hermitage: ~15 €, drink after 10 years
• Chateau Rouquette sur Mer - Cuvee Henri Lapierre: ~20 €, drink after 10 years
• Mas de la Seranne - Antonin et Louis: ~20 €, drink after 10 years

The last two wineries also make reds around 10 and 15 € which are good, but those two reds listed above are outstanding.

Lmao I don't know if I have it in me to wait.

 

[LTig]

Lmao I don't know if I have it in me to wait.

This how I learned to become patient: Buy 2 cases (12 bottles), wait 3 years and then open 1 bottle each following year. When the last bottle is open you wished you had not opened all the others before.