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Windows Setting Changes Frequency Response

McFly

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I'm guessing there's some ultimate guide for prepping a win10 pc/laptop for audio use somewhere on computeraudiophile - but I havent bothered looking. I'm thinking about trying to return the laptop and go mac
 

Guermantes

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You could try to disable C6 sleep, but it will impact battery life. Have you tried if changing to the High Performance Power Plans changes anything?
No, I haven't touched the bios yet because it is a shared computer, though I have my audio build on a separate SSD. Processor power plan is at 100% maximum CPU frequency and High Performance. I have also assigned my DAW to use cores 1 to 7 via processor affinity settings because the ACPI spikes tend to be on core 0.
 

j_j

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Hmmm, from my understanding of ERBs, they discuss the ear's ability to perceive differences in frequencies: the higher one goes, the greater the difference between two frequencies before a difference is heard - hence why small filters at high frequencies aren't very useful.

No, they are a measure of the actual filter bandwidth in the cochlea, much like the bands you refer to. It's not surprising that they manifest as equal content for location determination, as each ERB contributes about the same amount of information to the auditory nerve via partial loudnesses as a function of time.

To me they're different aspects of the same thing. In any case, ERB's are not very strongly related to actual pitch perception, which is much more complex and involves harmonic structures, etc, as well as basic cochlear excitation, signal envelopes, and the like.

You may enjoy this photograph:

blauert.jpg


Also, if you go to www.aes.org/sections/pnw to the "past meeting recaps" you'll find several talks there, one on basics of hearing, one on basics of spatial perception, and an older one on "what is loudness" (as opposed to intensity).

As far as I know, Dr. B and I don't have any major differences in opinion on this matter.
 

Chromatischism

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I'm not seeing that on my Win 10 PC with Realtek onboard.

1626329878155.png


Toggling this doesn't seem to have an effect on my equalization, either. I believe EQ APO and/or PEACE disabled and hid these settings when I installed them.
 

mysiak

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I have Windows 10, HP laptop with onboard Realtek, Creative X3 and Apple USB-C DAC. Only Creative drivers have Equalizer APO installed, but all processing has been disabled during the test. I tried to compensate volume differences with volume control and all measurements were taken at about -3dB as displayed in RMAA app. Recorded with X3 mic in.

Creative X3 card. The only difference between EAE on and off is about -3dB lower output with EAE on.
SB.png


Realtek onboard (Equalizer APO not installed). Screwed up response with or without EAE. I don't have any Realtek app which I could launch and modify its settings, but I will try digging further.
Realtek.png


Apple USB-C. I have no EAE options in the driver settings.
Apple.png


All together:
all-eae off.png


RMAA.png


Edit: Realtek is screwed up by Bang & Olufsen app, but I can't figure out how to disable it. App uninstall/reinstall or different drivers versions end up with the same result. Some kind of equalizer is applied no matter what I do. Switching between music/movie/voice give different frequency responses, but I can't switch to "flat" mode.

bang.png
 
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Presently42

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No, they are a measure of the actual filter bandwidth in the cochlea, much like the bands you refer to. It's not surprising that they manifest as equal content for location determination, as each ERB contributes about the same amount of information to the auditory nerve via partial loudnesses as a function of time.

To me they're different aspects of the same thing. In any case, ERB's are not very strongly related to actual pitch perception, which is much more complex and involves harmonic structures, etc, as well as basic cochlear excitation, signal envelopes, and the like.

Looks like I need to read up on ERBs, then! I quite misunderstood them.

Is that a pic of you and the good professor?
 
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Presently42

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Realtek onboard (Equalizer APO not installed). Screwed up response with or without EAE. I don't have any Realtek app which I could launch and modify its settings, but I will try digging further.

That's puzzling, and rather goes against my own - albeit found in a different way - findings. On my setup, eae immediately and noticeably alters the sound; whereas you have found it does nothing. eae seems to be highly system dependant!
 

Offler

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I'm not seeing that on my Win 10 PC with Realtek onboard.

Toggling this doesn't seem to have an effect on my equalization, either. I believe EQ APO and/or PEACE disabled and hid these settings when I installed them.

There can be layout like this, depending on the driver version.

rtk.jpg


ASIO, APO and other driver components may also be installed like this:

rtk2.jpg

Quite weird way of installing audio filters, but it could mean I can uninstall Realtek APO separately.

In any way, the driver APO does not seem to produce anything audible (edit: after few checks not even measurable). I guess the installation is not completely OK, and i cannot see Realtek Control panel where are options how to enable certain effects - such as equalizer.


Also when i un-check the Enhancements options, EQ APO reports this, and requests a reboot to enable it again.
 
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Chromatischism

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Most interesting! Might you be able to confirm this suspicion by uninstalling and reinstalling them?
I documented this at the time, with a screenshot showing the equalizer that used to be there. Let me see if I can find it.
 

Chromatischism

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In any way, the driver does not seem to produce anything audible. I guess the installation is not completely OK, and i cannot see Realtek Control panel where are options how to enable certain effects - such as equalizer.
Because it's hidden by the installation, likely to prevent conflicts.
 

GaryH

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The Blauert bands discuss how specific bands of frequencies are at least partially responsible for localisaish: see this post for a rather confusing description of the bands; or this image for a clearer graph. Note, that @Amir has discovered a rather similar phenomenon with headphones: boosting the 2.7 kHz to 5.5 kHz region increases the stereo effect.

This is in fact contrary to what the Blauert bands predict, and contrary to what the vast majority of listeners (including me) perceive and report when using/EQing headphones with a boost in this 2.7-5.5 kHz region - an increase in perception that the sound is right in front ('vorn') of you - more 'closeness' or 'presence' of the sound (the Sennheiser HD600 is an prime example of this), and so less sense of soundstage and depth. A decrease in frequency response in this region thus makes the sound appear more distant, giving a greater sense of space and stereo soundstage. As the forum poster you linked says:
A more present perception can be attained by boosting the 270...550Hz range and the 2.7...5.5KHz range (note the difference of a whole decade and identical bandwidth of these two bands), or indeed, reducing the level in those bands can reduce the "presence". [...] In the upper midrange I choose to put a fairly deep (-3db) notch around 2.5KHz, which I felt left a good vocal intelligibility while making the sound much less "in yer face".

A dip around this 2.5 kHz region is often found in HiFiMan headphones which are praised for their depth of soundstage.

I've independently also found, that increasing the region close to 8 kHz has a similar effect, which professor Blauert describes as height. I believe, that Dr. Toole has come to the same conclusion.

Do you have a source for Toole's findings there? It does seem that a boost around 8 kHz is associated with headphones that have known good spatial qualities, notably the unofficial soundstage king, the Sennheiser HD800(S), which it should be noted also has a dip around 2.5 kHz, further supporting my point above that this in fact enhances the stereo soundstage effect.
 
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Presently42

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This is in fact contrary to what the Blauert bands predict

I'm not of this convinced, and I feel your evidence is a bit apocryphal: indeed, Amir's findings are contradictory to your testimony - he proposes, that increasing the 2 - 5 kHz increases spatial qualities. I can't say I've any strong feeling one way or the other, so I'll not comment further.

Do you have a source for Toole's findings there?

Hmm, I looked for it in his book, but I couldn't find it: perhaps it's in a newer edition - or one of his paper. In any event, it's a figure, that plots frequency vs apparent location: anything played around 8 kHz is perceived as coming from above.
 

GaryH

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contradictory to your testimony

Not only contradictory to my testimony, but that of the vast majority of listener testimony I've seen (including the forum poster you yourself cited as explaining how the Blauert bands work), who report that frequency responses with a boost around 2-5 kHz result in a 'close' sounding headphone with poor soundstage (e.g. the HD600), whereas those with a dip there are reported to have a deeper, more expansive soundstage (e.g. many HiFiMan headphones). This is all described by the Blauert band around these frequencies, categorized in the graph you linked as eliciting a sound 'vorn' (= 'in front' in German) of the listener. As the Wikipedia article you linked says (autotranslated by Google):
front v [vorn] = present in the sound , close, direct
 
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McFly

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Interesting to see how much bloatware is out there ruining the sound.
I put EAE back on and played around with this maxx audio pro, it’s just an effects adder and gets tiring fast. Who would really use this crap? Why is this crap even on OEM PCs/Laptops. If people want this shit they should go looking for it after they buy their computer.
 

GaryH

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Perhaps we should engage in some abx testing!

ABX is a difference discrimination test. Most people would be able to hear a difference of a few decibels right around the frequencies the ear is most sensitive to.
 

Guermantes

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Interesting to see how much bloatware is out there ruining the sound.
I put EAE back on and played around with this maxx audio pro, it’s just an effects adder and gets tiring fast. Who would really use this crap? Why is this crap even on OEM PCs/Laptops. If people want this shit they should go looking for it after they buy their computer.
I suspect it's mostly a vain attempt to "improve" the sound of onboard speakers.
 
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