Windows 10 20H2: new issues with USB latency never experienced before

[sejarzo]

For years, I have run Foobar2000 using a variety of USB DACs on my HP Z220 desktop with essentially no problems whatsoever. My current configuration is Foobar2000/WASAPI event>SMSL SU-8v2>Magni Heresy.

I wanted extra USB3.0 ports on that machine, so it has a PCI-E add-in card for those to go along with multiple USB 2.0 and 3.0 ports on the motherboard.

Recently, I noted that I heard some small pops and clicks at random, non-repeatable points in just about any file played in Foobar or on YouTube videos, and occasionally a more pronounced dropout. Installed MediaMonkey, same deal.

Given some reports here about similar problems with the SU-8 driver in the past, I updated the driver to the most recent one on the SMSL site...but no joy. Discovered the same thing happening when I swapped in either a Topping D30 or Topping D10. WASAPI event/push, DS, ASIO...all had the same problem, with old or new drivers. Switched from Avast to Bitdefender, no change.

Googling for recent posts turned up similar complaints on various pro audio sites, that some systems do not like the generic USB drivers or chipset drivers that Microsoft has installed during Win10 upgrades. Most suggested running LatencyMon to see what has happened...here's what it found:

Obviously not good. Those pro audio sites suggested updating the chipset drivers to the latest available from the manufacturer's site...did so, no improvement at all.

Has anybody else run into these problems after the 20H2 update or any other recent change? Thanks!

 

[Speedskater]

Windows updates have been problematic for decades. Benchmark and Stereophile noted audio problems a long time ago.

 

[sejarzo]

Thanks, but that's why my question is specifically tied to the 20H2 update.

 

[dfuller]

Seems a good a reason as any for me to not go past 2004... I appreciate you posting this!

 

[majingotan]

Zero issues whatsoever with my Schiit Bifrost 2 Unison USB playback according to LatencyMon. NEVER heard any clicks nor pops nor crackles whatsoever with 20H2 when playing music, YT, Spotify, Netflix etc. Maybe those USB drivers that aren't UAC2 compliant have latency issues with 20H2

 

[fløyen]

Googling for recent posts turned up similar complaints on various pro audio sites, that some systems do not like the generic USB drivers or chipset drivers that Microsoft has installed during Win10 upgrades. Most suggested running LatencyMon to see what has happened...

Thanks for posting this. My ancient Lenovo S20 Xeon w3550 was having similar issues on Foobar 2000/ASIO4ALL v2.14/Apple Dongle - Model 2049 since I updated to 20H2. I'd forgotten about LatencyMon until you mentioned it; giving it a run saw quite similar issues to you. Doing a Windows Update, even though its the latest version, identified three driver updates were available including one for Realtek Semiconductor Corp. - USB - 10.0.16299.31241. After restarting and testing again I got this result and no more clicks:

 

[sejarzo]

My system can run for 2-3 minutes with no issues shown on LatencyMon before the dreaded storport.sys problem occurs. It happens even if I restart the machine and just run LatencyMon and nothing else.

Next thing to try will be removing the add-in USB card from the Z220.

I don't have great expectations for that, because my 400 G1 ProDesk mini and my 640 G1 ProBook all show issues with storport.sys after I installed LatencyMon on them. The 400 G1 mini has been updated to 20H2, but the ProBook has not.

Our son is in IT and he said his previous work notebook was a new Lenovo X1 Carbon, extremely fast, but he gave up using it with USB DACs due to stuttering that was impossible to solve.

 

[amirm]

My audio precision software is very sensitive to latency. I sometimes go through hell trying to get it to not drop audio samples. I noticed recently this has gotten worse. Even a simple measurement was causing data drop. I disconnected a ton of stuff and that helped some but not entirely. Didn't realize others were having similar issues.

So while my evidence is not conclusive, it does point to maybe some problems being there.

 

[Bamyasi]

Thanks for posting this. My ancient Lenovo S20 Xeon w3550 was having similar issues on Foobar 2000/ASIO4ALL v2.14/Apple Dongle - Model 2049 since I updated to 20H2. I'd forgotten about LatencyMon until you mentioned it; giving it a run saw quite similar issues to you. Doing a Windows Update, even though its the latest version, identified three driver updates were available including one for Realtek Semiconductor Corp. - USB - 10.0.16299.31241. After restarting and testing again I got this result and no more clicks:

View attachment 101289

Double this, exactly my experience. Same issue with Lenovo ThinkPad T470s here, installing Realtek USB drivers fixed it. Note, for some reason the drivers were listed under optional updates in my Windows updates tab, you will need to click Show optional updates button to select and install them.

 

[okok]

pull off every usb WiFi receiver? that stuff causes latency

 

[sejarzo]

The Z220 has no WiFi at all, strictly wired Ethernet. I will try removing the wireless mouse dongle, but so far, mouse movement has had zero direct impact on latency.

 

[sejarzo]

My audio precision software is very sensitive to latency. I sometimes go through hell trying to get it to not drop audio samples. I noticed recently this has gotten worse. Even a simple measurement was causing data drop. I disconnected a ton of stuff and that helped some but not entirely. Didn't realize others were having similar issues.

So while my evidence is not conclusive, it does point to maybe some problems being there.

Thanks for that insight, Amir! Now that we are seeing multiple users with different hardware noting the same or similar problem, it does suggest that it is OS related versus just a particular hardware combination.

I find this very frustrating as my new Moto G Fast can play FLAC files on the USB drive attached to my router using JetAudio without any issues at all. My son said he gave up using his notebook with a USB DAC and just used his iPhone.

 

[Old Listener]

I'm seeing severe impacts on my Win 10 NUC. Reaction to mouse motion is slow and jerky. Starting an application takes a long time. A 3rd party DRM package was installed recently; I think it came with Nuance Dragon speech recognition s/w. Disabling that s/w and Dragon itself seems to help but some problems remain. They appear to be caused by windows itself.

I have not heard any audio dropouts.

I'm thinking that I'll switch to an M1 Mac in 1-2 years. Windows as a dis-service gets old.

 

[maverickronin]

You're better of sticking with the LTSC releases if you can.

 

[sejarzo]

lnstalled the optional Intel chipset drivers from Windows Update. Restarted, opened LatencyMon alone and 54 seconds later, storport.sys went way into the "red zone".

Downloaded and ran the Intel Driver & Support Assistant. Result: "No supported driver or software updates are available for your system."
(Caveat: the Intel site says that tool doesn't provide chipset updates.)

Rolled back the video driver to previous version. No improvement.

Removed the PCI-E USB3.0 card. No improvement.

Shut down, removed wireless mouse receiver, USB cable to UPS, USB cable to DAC, plugged in HP OEM wired mouse. Rebooted, started LatencyMon, disconnected mouse, so there was absolutely nothing connected to any USB port, no other apps running, and 27 seconds later:

Grrrrrrr.

 

[sejarzo]

I was ready to reload Win10 version 2004 and thought I would try one more thing first. Went through all installed programs and removed items that were not used or necessary.

My boot drive is a Crucial SSD, and Crucial Storage Manager was installed from pretty much the first day I reloaded Win10 on this machine in August 2018. Uninstalled it, and LatencyMon reported no storport.sys issues after 45 minutes and nothing more than 440 microsec delays.

 

[daftcombo]

I was ready to reload Win10 version 2004 and thought I would try one more thing first. Went through all installed programs and removed items that were not used or necessary.

My boot drive is a Crucial SSD, and Crucial Storage Manager was installed from pretty much the first day I reloaded Win10 on this machine in August 2018. Uninstalled it, and LatencyMon reported no storport.sys issues after 45 minutes and nothing more than 440 microsec delays.

I hope it goes on like that.

I will try that too as I have been having similar issues for months.

 

[sejarzo]

I hope it goes on like that.

I will try that too as I have been having similar issues for months.

Unsure if Crucial Storage Executive (I mistyped "Manager" in my reply above) was causing any issues in the past or if it just does not get along with 20H2.

I have a couple of SanDisk 128GB SSDs here from upgrades, and I am thinking about pulling the Crucial from the Z220, throwing one of those in there and installing 20H2 and nothing but Foobar, checking for any odd results with LatencyMon, and then adding back programs to see if I can find anything else that causes problems.

 

[sejarzo]

I decided to bite the bullet yesterday after I found system/Diagnostic Policy Service/Diagnostic Service Host were consuming 40% or more CPU and not responding to the typical fixes (stop the service, delete srudb.dat, run sfc/ scannow, etc.)

I pulled the SSD from the Z220, used another PC to use diskpart to wipe out everything on it, then reinstalled 20H2 on the SSD in the Z220 from a USB installation stick created via the MS site on 11/12/2020.

After going through the standard initial configuration/setup restarts, I finally arrived at the Windows desktop. CPU usage ran 45-55% for over 25 minutes showing the exact same behavior with nothing else running other than Windows. Didn't update any drivers manually, either, so the system was using strictly the drivers that MS decided were correct for my hardware.

Luckily I still had a stick configured with ver 2004, so I removed the SSD again, wiped out the 20H2 installation, and installed 2004. Loaded up Office, Chrome, Foobar, Exact Audio Copy, and some typical utilities including LatencyMon.

No high CPU usage...no storport.sys latency problems...no clicks and pops in audio streams.

20H2 really does NOT get along with either of my HP desktops.

 

[thewas]

Weirdly I just updated my old music source PC (7 year old Dell i3-4150 with recently added Samsung 1GB SSD) to 20H2 because I had the feeling that in the last few weeks my PC sounded more unclear and imaging suffered and now I have the feeling it sounds really good, is it just placebo?
Just installed ran also LatencyMon and all is shown in the green region, unfortunately hadn't done it before the update...