Wilson Audio TuneTot Review (high-end bookshelf speaker)

[heflys20]

I put the question out many times but no valid "complete" answer so far.

There have been valid answers, but you're convinced this is a good speaker; so it can't be helped. That's up to you, though.

I based my judgement on
in-room response and Amir evaluation.

Hard to base an opinion on in room-response, particularly when everyone's room is different.

 

[Slayer]

Here's a truth: $10k is not anywhere near high end audio. Not for any component. Measure $50k plus gear and maybe. It's not done on this website. Nor would I care.

It's these sorts of comments that allow companies to keep putting out overpriced gear that measures horribly. Well that, and those willing to needlessly put out thoise amounts of money for a piece of gear are more interested in bragging rights, than actual listening quality.

Price is not an indication of quality and performance. In fact, in some cases as we see, the higher the price becomes, the more poorly it measures. Due to the fact, those spending outrageous money on a component, will tend to make themselves believe it sounds better, when in actuality they are are nowhere near SOTA.

Look how far dac's and speakers have come in the past decade. You can great sounding and measuring gear for under $1k. Topping is just one example of the top measuring dacs.

To say $10k is nowhere near high end is just an elitist comment, which helps no one but the manufacturer of said overpriced products.
As far as measuring $50k plug gear on this website goes, you should ask yourself, why are these pieces of high-priced gear not being sent to Amir for validation? Most of us know why, measurements would most likely show, they don't live up to their hype.

 

[MrHifiTunes]

There have been valid answers, but you're convinced this is a good speaker; so it can't be helped. That's up to you, though.

Im not convinced at all....seems you don't get what I'm trying to say. I thought i make it clear by now.
I don't even care if it good or bad one.

Hard to base an opinion on in room-response, particularly when everyone's room is different.

I don't understand why people start questioning the measurements? Is this not the science behind a speaker?
If you think in-room response is not important then better skip it. Same for frequency response then....

 

[dshreter]

It's these sorts of comments that allow companies to keep putting out overpriced gear that measures horribly. Well that, and those willing to needlessly put out thoise amounts of money for a piece of gear are more interested in bragging rights, than actual listening quality.

Price is not an indication of quality and performance. In fact, in some cases as we see, the higher the price becomes, the more poorly it measures. Due to the fact, those spending outrageous money on a component, will tend to make themselves believe it sounds better, when in actuality they are are nowhere near SOTA.

Look how far dac's and speakers have come in the past decade. You can great sounding and measuring gear for under $1k. Topping is just one example of the top measuring dacs.

To say $10k is nowhere near high end is just an elitist comment, which helps no one but the manufacturer of said overpriced products.
As far as measuring $50k plug gear on this website goes, you should ask yourself, why are these pieces of high-priced gear not being sent to Amir for validation? Most of us know why, measurements would most likely show, they don't live up to their hype.

Don’t be so high and mighty. Hundreds upon hundreds of different DACs that have all sounded identical for the last decade isn’t some proof point of enlightenment. The fact is DACs are easy to buy because they’re cheap, and replacing or upgrading almost any of them is a vanity exercise too, although it’s a less expensive one. Hanging your hat on SINAD doesn’t make it any more logical.

 

[Pearljam5000]

Do not get mislead and make false statements.
They do not sound good or bad, they are just liked by Amir if and only if equalization applied.

Amir is an audio God to many people

 

[heflys20]

Im not convinced at all....seems you don't get what I'm trying to say. I thought i make it clear by now.
I don't even care if it good or bad one.

Right. If you say so.

I don't understand why people start questioning the measurements? Is this not the science behind a speaker?
If you think in-room response is not important then better skip it. Same for frequency response then....

I'm not sure what you're saying. "Estimated" In-room response pertains to how the speaker will likely behave in a far-field type room. In it is not proof of how it will behave in "your" room. I estimate that that bass-boost would be even more prominent in the average-room, depending on positioning/dampening.

 

[MrHifiTunes]

Right. If you say so.

Well if you read and understand what Í said you would know.

I'm not sure what you're saying. "Estimated" In-room response pertains to how the speaker will likely behave in a far-field type room. In it is not proof of how it will behave in "your" room. I estimate that that bass-boost would be even more prominent in the average-room, depending on positioning/dampening.

Yes of course it will not be MY room. Every room is different that is why there is 1 standard, the "in-room measurement".
If Amir test a speaker again, he will get the same result.
You also dont get the frequency response in YOUR room. Every room is different.
At least the in-room goes 1 step further and combine the FR and early reflection, because in EVERY room you hear direct and indirect sound.
It is also possibe the bass boost is gone in a room. Hence the ref from genelec.

 

[zeppzeppzepp]

In my opinion, this fact should be driving people to get best speakers/equipment in terms of technology and performance. Then you will have trust in what you hear, and then you could blame sound_producer/enginerr/artist for unpleasant sound of the music piece.

Sorry to hear that,
We should thank all that perfect things that make us think they're flawed because they fulfill our short and boring life.

I'm eager to learn the rules, but not interested to follow the rules......
I appreciate the diversity........also for the audio products......

 

[heflys20]

It is also possibe the bass boost is gone in a room.

LOL. How can it disappear in the average room (which is likely to be more reflective) if it's not gone in a free-field setting? Aside from eq? The Genelec doesn't have built in bass-boost to begin with. The Wilson, apparently, does.

Well if you read and understand what Í said you would know.

Well considering how many people keep implying the same thing that I have, and how no one has yet answered your questions to satisfaction...I can't be the only one not understanding.

 

[MrHifiTunes]

LOL. How can it disappear in the average room (which is likely to be more reflective) if it's not gone in a free-field setting? Aside from eq? The Genelec doesn't have built in bass-boost to begin with. The Wilson, apparently, does.

No the genelec had a flat response but in a room a big dip. When you have boost or not is not important, the room makes the dip.

Well considering how many people keep implying the same thing that I have, and how no one has yet answered your questions to satisfaction...I can't be the only one not understanding.

I guess...seems not many want to think out of the box. many seems to stay between the lines we have.
And to make sure, I don't imply that those are wrong, all the opposite.

Tell me why Amir doesnt EQ the problem area between 1-3k Hz where there is a dip of 10 -15 db? Why he doesnt mention anything about it in his listening impression before and after EQing.

He didnt hear it? Or what is wrong here?

 

[heflys20]

Tell me why Amir doesnt EQ the problem area between 1-3k Hz where there is a dip of 10 -15 db? Why he doesnt mention anything about it in his listening impression before and after EQing.

He didnt hear it? Or what is wrong here?

He did try to lessen the impact of the dip causing brightness (due to the elevation past 3khz) by lowering the response at 800hz and 5000hz both by -2.0db thus making that spectrum more tonally balanced to his ears.

 

[voodooless]

Some people seem to think one can EQ a room bound dip with a boost? New flash: one cannot. Cancellation means the result is zero. Zero times something is still zero.

 

[MrHifiTunes]

He did try to lessen the impact of the dip causing brightness (due to the elevation past 3khz) by lowering the response at 800hz and 5000hz both by -2.0db thus making that spectrum more tonally balanced to his ears.

Great, - 2db to solve a dip of 10-15 db dip in the 1-3k Hz area where our ear is the most sensitive.....So you actually say, that flat FR response isnt inportant at all.

How about he tried to fix the resonance at 800hz and kill the 'showroom"brightness with lowering the 5000Hz?
And didnt do anything about the 1-3k Hz because he didnt need to, the in-room is flat.... direct sound enery and indirect sound engery was in balance in that area.

And like I mentioned before, he probably didnt need to EQ the speaker but could solve the problems in an other way. But he makes a lot of test and measurements...difficult for him to spent a lot of time on it.

 

[DanielT]

Here's a little more about this with how speakers work in regular listening rooms:

"Yes, SBIR (Speaker Boundary Interference Response) is a huge problem in almost all non-equalization systems (speaker) . Peaks and valleys in the middle register often have a catastrophic impact on sound quality. The only passive solution that is normally practical is a large baffle or recess in the wall (a very flat speaker also works well against a wall). Otherwise, a proper distance to the speaker wall (around 1 m or so) is required to place the SBIR valley so low in frequency that it can be balanced by various modal influences. However, the floor reflection remains, which also adds to it in this respect if you do not place the bass element close to the floor.

I just want to imply that I relatively recently developed equalization settings for a couple of speaker models that can be mounted in e.g. a roof corner. Without equalization, it will of course be almost unheard of, while in this context it sounds remarkably good with equalization. This illustrates why equalization is often not the last resort but the only resort"

faktiskt.io • Visa tråd - Kompromisser vid högtalarplacering

www.faktiskt.io

 

[heflys20]

Great, - 2db to solve a dip of 10-15 db dip in the 1-3k Hz area where our ear is the most sensitive.....So you actually say, that flat FR response isnt inportant at all.

LOL. He did the eq based on the estimated in-room response, which shows the 1-3khz mid-range dip being about -2/-3db, hence (I assume) why he lowered the response by -2db at 800hz and 5000hz.

And like I mentioned before, he probably didnt need to EQ the speaker but could solve the problems in an other way.

Like what, exactly? I'm curious.

 

[MrHifiTunes]

Here's a little more about this with how speakers work in regular listening rooms:

"Yes, SBIR (Speaker Boundary Interference Response) is a huge problem in almost all non-equalization systems. Peaks and valleys in the middle register often have a catastrophic impact on sound quality. The only passive solution that is normally practical is a large baffle or recess in the wall (a very flat speaker also works well against a wall). Otherwise, a proper distance to the speaker wall (around 1 m or so) is required to place the SBIR valley so low in frequency that it can be balanced by various modal influences. However, the floor reflection remains, which also adds to it in this respect if you do not place the base element close to the floor.

I just want to imply that I relatively recently developed equalization settings for a couple of speaker models that can be mounted in e.g. a roof corner. Without equalization, it will of course be almost unheard of, while in this context it sounds remarkably good with equalization. This illustrates why equalization is often not the last resort but the only resort"

faktiskt.io • Visa tråd - Kompromisser vid högtalarplacering

www.faktiskt.io

Thanks this is proper information.
I think nowaday EQ is not so diffcult to implement if somewhere in the chain you are in the digital domain. Often a far cheaper solution to solve some problems.

Something i brought up here but seems no one come can to.
I dont know if it makes sense or not. just something I want to know so I can learn.
There is flat in-room response so direct sound energy and indirect sound energy is in balance. But we see a big dip in the FR in the 1-3 area.
This mean they dial in more reflected sound?

LOL. He did the eq based on the estimated in-room response, which shows the mid-range dip being about -2/-3db, hence (I assume) why he lowered the response by -2db at 800hz and 5000hz.

So you solve a dip with even making a bigger dip? great solution.
So now the in-room measurement is important? 2 -3 messages back you said it didnt mean a thing because it is not YOUR room.

Like what, exactly? I'm curious.

Well I did post it here. But as I mentioned I made some calculated assumptions because some blanks we dont know. Amir didnt mention it...but I think my assumptions are quiet reasonable ones.

 

[heflys20]

So you solve a dip with even maken a bigger dip? great solution.

LOL. I have no idea what you're talking about. He didn't touch the 1-3khz dip. Just the reduced the response outside of it.

So now the in-room measurement is important? 2 -3 messages back you said it didnt mean a thing because it is not YOUR room.

My name isn't Amir. I didn't make eq adjustments based on my "estimated" in room response. I said that's what Amir did to make the upper spectrum more balanced (subjectively) to him.

Well I did post it here. But as I mentioned I made some calculated assumptions because some blanks we dont know. Amir didnt mention it...but I think my assumptions are quiet reasonable ones.

So you're not sure? Okay. I guess.

 

[MrHifiTunes]

LOL. I have no idea what you're talking about. He didn't touch the 1-3khz dip. Just the reduced the response outside of it.

Come on man do you take yourself serious? No he didnt touch the dip in 1-3k Hz. But you said he makes it bigger by also making a dip before it and after it. So the dip is spread over an even wider range.
Again, in otherwords you are saying that flat FR isnt important then...

My name isn't Amir. I didn't make eq adjustments based on my "estimated" in room response. I said that's what Amir did to make the upper spectrum more balanced (subjectively) to him.

So Amir is wrong? Go tell him not me.... Like I said he also didn't make the decision based on the in -room.
Amir (subjectively) likes a big dip from 800Hz to 5kHz? I learned something new here.

So you're not sure? Okay. I guess.

Are you sure? I think not because like i said there is information missing to make a proper evaluation.

 

[rammster]

Sorry to hear that,
We should thank all that perfect things that make us think they're flawed because they fulfill our short and boring life.

I'm eager to learn the rules, but not interested to follow the rules......
I appreciate the diversity........also for the audio products......

Don't be sorry, it is not your fault. Opinions do not always match, but scientific data does.

 

[heflys20]

Come on man do you take yourself serious? No he didny touch the dip in 1-3k Hz. But you said he makes it bigger by also making a dip before it and after it. So the dip is spread over a even wider range.
Again, in otherwords you are saying that flat FR isnt important then...

So Amir is wrong? Go tell him not me....
So
Amir (subjectively) likes a big dip from 800Hz to 5kHz? I learned something new here.

Are you sure? I think not because like i said there is information missing to make a proper evaluation.

-2.0db is a "big" dip? LOL. Whatever you say sir. BTW, I take myself just a serious as when you originally said that Wilson intentionally designed these speakers with bass-boost to correct room nulls.

Like I said he also didn't make the decision based on the in -room.

He literally said he made the eq decisions based on predicted-in room response, I'll quote him:

"I eventually gave up on optimizing using on-axis response and roughly used the Predicted In-Room Response (by eye) to develop the two other mild filters."