Wilson Audio TuneTot Review (high-end bookshelf speaker)

[Valhalla]

10K for a shoes box size speaker? Thanks, but no thanks!

 

[Inner Space]

This whole forum is about accurate sound reproduction.

Some of it is. My observation is that most members value accuracy until their amp output, and then abandon it completely for the speaker/room part, by seeking additional tones and delays and reflections that were never in the original signal, which in my opinion represents joyous embrace of inaccuracy. Which makes a nonsense of the objective/subjective debate - most folks here seem to be both at once.

 

[DWI]

@DWI do your Wilson towers sound like these TuneTots or have you heard these?

I have no idea. I’ve not heard the TuneTots. We were after full range speakers that were going into a mid-size room with acoustic treatment.

From what I’ve read in the last 15 minutes the TuneTots were designed to give an engaging sound in adverse conditions - restricted spaces or flat against a wall in untreated rooms - in a package that will look good in the most exotically designed space.

I seem to be the only person to have stuck my head above the parapet as owning Wilson speakers and saying how that came about. I have been mischaracterised to the point of absurdity, and it is eye-opening how judgemental people can be about other peoples’ choices.

My guess is that the bass response is intentional to avoid adverse results when the speakers are located in the most inappropriate places. I had real issues putting speakers in my office. I now have ceiling speakers that go to 40hz -6db that are in enclosures only 93mm in diameter. There is no doubt that Wilson could easily have made this speaker go way lower, but if they had it would have masked the sound. From what I’ve read from reviews they achieved their design aim. Having had the Focal Utopia Colour EVO at home, which are fabulous at a similar price and go to 44hz -3db, they would be far preferable in more ideal circumstances.

 

[MattHooper]

What about those of us with expensive amps but cheap cables?

Hey! I resemble that comment!

 

[Crosstalk]

I have no idea. I’ve not heard the TuneTots. We were after full range speakers that were going into a mid-size room with acoustic treatment.

From what I’ve read in the last 15 minutes the TuneTots were designed to give an engaging sound in adverse conditions - restricted spaces or flat against a wall in untreated rooms - in a package that will look good in the most exotically designed space.

I seem to be the only person to have stuck my head above the parapet as owning Wilson speakers and saying how that came about. I have been mischaracterised to the point of absurdity, and it is eye-opening how judgemental people can be about other peoples’ choices.

My guess is that the bass response is intentional to avoid adverse results when the speakers are located in the most inappropriate places. I had real issues putting speakers in my office. I now have ceiling speakers that go to 40hz -6db that are in enclosures only 93mm in diameter. There is no doubt that Wilson could easily have made this speaker go way lower, but if they had it would have masked the sound. From what I’ve read from reviews they achieved their design aim. Having had the Focal Utopia Colour EVO at home, which are fabulous at a similar price and go to 44hz -3db, they would be far preferable in more ideal circumstances.

Whatever you say, it’s a dumb speaker which is overpriced. Kef r3, revel or Genelec is way better than this.

 

[Crosstalk]

I have no idea. I’ve not heard the TuneTots. We were after full range speakers that were going into a mid-size room with acoustic treatment.

From what I’ve read in the last 15 minutes the TuneTots were designed to give an engaging sound in adverse conditions - restricted spaces or flat against a wall in untreated rooms - in a package that will look good in the most exotically designed space.

I seem to be the only person to have stuck my head above the parapet as owning Wilson speakers and saying how that came about. I have been mischaracterised to the point of absurdity, and it is eye-opening how judgemental people can be about other peoples’ choices.

My guess is that the bass response is intentional to avoid adverse results when the speakers are located in the most inappropriate places. I had real issues putting speakers in my office. I now have ceiling speakers that go to 40hz -6db that are in enclosures only 93mm in diameter. There is no doubt that Wilson could easily have made this speaker go way lower, but if they had it would have masked the sound. From what I’ve read from reviews they achieved their design aim. Having had the Focal Utopia Colour EVO at home, which are fabulous at a similar price and go to 44hz -3db, they would be far preferable in more ideal circumstances.

Show the pics of both or it never happened

 

[Crosstalk]

My take is that, more fundamentally, this forum is "about" accurately understanding what is happening in an audio product, and minimizing bullshit in doing so. It's about producing and looking at accurate information about products, which includes measurements and correspondence to audible consequences.

Personal Preference has always been acknowledged as valid. IF you are seeking accuracy, then the reviews and discussion of audio products here can help inform about which products are more or less along that continuum. But IF you aren't seeking accuracy....the information can still be informative. It's really about simply putting the accurate information out there (rather than woo-woo bullshit) so someone can make informed decisions about gear.

That's my take anyway. (And it only partially covers the discussions that go on here, which are pretty wide-ranging).





This is projecting your own values, which are not necessarily shared precisely by others. Some people seem unable to accept that some audio designers don't share their own precise goal. Speaker manufacturers like Wilson, B+W (not to mention Zu and others) just don't seem to share the same goal of producing speakers designed for perfect neutrality, or other parameters. They are going for engineering a specific "sound."
You may not like that...but it doesn't make sense to simply dismiss a product as "flawed" because it doesn't meet your goals, where it may meet the goals of the designer or some portion of people attracted to the design.

Amirm, for instance, noted subjectively that the Wilson Tune Tot sounded "larger" than the Revel speaker he compared it to (the large scale of sound from the Tune Tot being a common feature remarked upon in reviews), and he also remarked it had a certain appealing vividness and clarity, ultimately saying "Overall, I preferred the TuneTot over Revel." Over a REVEL!

Now it could be that ultimately Amirm would find the uneven performance across a variety of material on the Tune Tot might push him...or someone else here...to ultimately stick with a Revel speaker. On the other hand, someone ELSE may find the scale of sound, sense of detail and vividness etc of the Tune Tot to be overall more satisfying. In which case...any value proposition for buying the Tune Tot is STRICTLY UP TO THAT PERSON and not you to tell anyone "don't pay some company for making a product that actually met their own goals and which actually please some customers."



I've seen similar views expressed about all sorts of gear. One could also say "please don't give your money to a company making a pricey tube amplifier when there are more accurate, more affordable amplifiers made by other hard working people." But, sorry...I really like tube amplifiers and I'm happy to pay for them. Plus...I think it's facile to presume the engineers for these products that you dismiss might not be as "hard working." They may not be working precisely towards your desired goal; that doesn't mean they don't put a lot of hard work in to their products.

I didn’t say they are not hard working , they are hard working but for cause which is flawed and they don’t understand it . I won’t call it engineering

 

[DWI]

Show the pics of both or it never happened

?

 

[MattHooper]

I didn’t say they are not hard working , they are hard working but for cause which is flawed and they don’t understand it . I won’t call it engineering

Or they are working towards a goal that they are achieving. You just don't like the goal. It seems simply churlish to refuse to recognize something as "engineering" just because it's not toward a goal you prefer.

I don't want an expensive mechanical watch - I have a digital watch that tells more accurate time for less money . I don't want a motorcycle - I have a car which is much more practical and useful through every season. But I recognize the engineering involved in objects that aren't designed for someone like me and my goals.

 

[Crosstalk]

Or they are working towards a goal that they are achieving. You just don't like the goal. It seems simply churlish to refuse to recognize something as "engineering" just because it's not toward a goal you prefer.

I don't want an expensive mechanical watch - I have a digital watch that tells more accurate time for less money . I don't want a motorcycle - I have a car which is much more practical and useful through every season. But I recognize the engineering involved in objects that aren't designed for someone like me and my goals.

when you look at well engineered watch it still tells you time with good accuracy but my be with very non noticeable tolerance. But with a "broken" frequency response, you cannot ignore the flawed boosted, or sucked in frequencies every time you turn them on. I wont call it engineering if they cannot make it flat. I would rather discard them as their incompetence. just sugar coated with some marketing. I feel sad for the folks who fight for their validity after buying something broken like this.

 

[watchnerd]

Hey! I resemble that comment!

Ditto.

My amp costs like 180x of my speaker cables.

 

[zeppzeppzepp]

Studio monitors are required to produce accurate studio recordings. What people do with those recordings is really a personal decision. The same applies to live music. There is no law against playing the Brahms piano concertos in a multi-storey car park. the score does not say “only to be played in a top concert hall”.

"Accurate" is only one of the many concepts thought of for audio reproduction.
No absolute accurate speaker exists, so the job is done with relative methods with all kinds of monitors.
There's a trend that marketing "accurate" for studio monitors, but that kind of "accurate" monitors never dominate in the audio reproduction industry.
Mixing and Mastering engineers don't need to think about purity and can get the job done with brutal NS10s.

 

[watchnerd]

Man, this thread has me wondering what kind of gear I could send to Amir that:

a) Is expensive
b) He'll probably subjectively like
c) Won't measure all that great
d) Will get the ASR community all salty

I think a used one of these would be perfect; they were $14K back in the day, but the used ones are still $4K

Mark Levinson No.30 Reference Digital Processor

Over the past two and a half years, I've auditioned and reviewed a number of digital audio products. It has been a fascinating experience both to watch digital playback technology evolve and to listen to the results of various design philosophies. The road to more musical digital audio has been...

www.stereophile.com

Credit to @Robin L for the find on the vintage DAC thread.

 

[heflys20]

What about those of us with expensive amps but cheap cables?

Well, if the expensive cable manufacturers are to be believed, you're missing out on true sound reproduction from your speakers. You need that extra "musicality" and "transparency" offered by $2000 wire.

 

[watchnerd]

Well, if the expensive cable manufacturers are to be believed, you're missing out on true sound reproduction from your speakers. You need that extra "musicality" and "transparency" offered by $2000 wire.

I prefer to blow silly wire money on phono cartridges, because they actually do sound and measure different.

Granted, they're all objectively sucky and flawed -- although they're not as sucky and flawed as speakers.

 

[MattHooper]

when you look at well engineered watch it still tells you time with good accuracy but my be with very non noticeable tolerance. But with a "broken" frequency response, you cannot ignore the flawed boosted, or sucked in frequencies every time you turn them on. I wont call it engineering if they cannot make it flat. I would rather discard them as their incompetence. just sugar coated with some marketing. I feel sad for the folks who fight for their validity after buying something broken like this.

Ok. So you refuse to recognize any other goals than your own.

Can't do much more with that.

Frankly, I too am appalled at the incompetence of motorcycle designers, who seem utterly unable to reach the goal of building a car. A Good Engineer can achieve a perfectly serviceable 4 wheeled vehicle, so nobody should waste their money on those incompetents building motorcycles.

No engineering there.

 

[Galliardist]

Or they are working towards a goal that they are achieving. You just don't like the goal. It seems simply churlish to refuse to recognize something as "engineering" just because it's not toward a goal you prefer.

But what IS the goal with that particular peak? It's extreme and narrow, so not emphasis on low harmonics for notes that are well down, the reason I've seen given for less extreme peaks in small speakers.

It's worth noting that Wilson Audio do pay serious attention to bass. In the past (not sure if they do this now) they used to produce differing versions of their larger models for the European market, designed to work with smaller rooms and harder walls than their US versions. This kind of attention suggests that (whether we agree with their goals or not) they have learnt a few things about bass output. When stopped, the TuneTot's bass response doesn't vary too much from the previous Duette speakers, so in a sense this speaker is not too inconsistent with their history despite the open port response.

Indeed, were this a sealed box with just the closed port response, sure there would be lot of posts about the price, but the response would be less likely to be questioned as it has.

 

[dshreter]

But what IS the goal with that particular peak? It's extreme and narrow, so not emphasis on low harmonics for notes that are well down, the reason I've seen given for less extreme peaks in small speakers.

It's worth noting that Wilson Audio do pay serious attention to bass. In the past (not sure if they do this now) they used to produce differing versions of their larger models for the European market, designed to work with smaller rooms and harder walls than their US versions. This kind of attention suggests that (whether we agree with their goals or not) they have learnt a few things about bass output. When stopped, the TuneTot's bass response doesn't vary too much from the previous Duette speakers, so in a sense this speaker is not too inconsistent with their history despite the open port response.

Indeed, were this a sealed box with just the closed port response, sure there would be lot of posts about the price, but the response would be less likely to be questioned as it has.

I’ve not heard them, but I would guess it produces a thumping bass line that is high enough that it is still easy to hear when played at moderate volumes. It’s like a loudness setting built into the speaker.

Not my cup of tea, but it’s easy for me to see why it might be appealing to someone listening to it in an office with background music and demo well for that use case.

 

[Robin L]

Ok. So you refuse to recognize any other goals than your own.

Can't do much more with that.

Frankly, I too am appalled at the incompetence of motorcycle designers, who seem utterly unable to reach the goal of building a car. A Good Engineer can achieve a perfectly serviceable 4 wheeled vehicle, so nobody should waste their money on those incompetents building motorcycles.

No engineering there.

Weren't the first Honda Cars glorified motorcycles? Surrounded by just enough exterior cowling to pass for a car?

 

[watchnerd]

10K for a shoes box size speaker? Thanks, but no thanks!

I'm waiting for @Sal1950 to bust out the old term "monkey coffin".

Although I have little room to talk; my Dynaudio Heritage Specials aren't that much cheaper or bigger than the Tune Tots.

But at least they measure better.