Wilson Audio TuneTot Review (high-end bookshelf speaker)

[Vuki]

So prediction scores, harman research etc. All for nothing?

 

[heflys20]

All this back and forth over an overpriced, mediocre speaker that's doesn't even adhere to its own specifications for the average room. Like I said, they're either liars or incompetent. As such, why would anyone want to give them 10k, let alone find reasons to justify such a design, knowing this?

How is it possible that speaker with that FR sounds (at least to Amir) better than Revel M106?

After EQ. People keep missing that. He also said the Genelec 8050 was better than the Wilson in this thread.

Amir is a bass head.

But he eq'd the speaker to lessen the bass-boost.

 

[watchnerd]

So prediction scores, harman research etc. All for nothing?

Those are just statistically validated methods using decent number of test subjects for manufacturing speakers that have a good chance of appealing to a wide audience in domestic situations and thus selling well.

They allow for individual preferences that deviate from the fat part of the bell curve.

I, personally, don't fall in the middle of that curve -- I like my bass leaner than the Harman / Revel model.

Prediction score is pretty flawed, too, but we have a separate thread for that.

 

[watchnerd]

.
But he eq'd the speaker to lessen the bass-boost.

I was joking.

 

[heflys20]

I was joking.

My bad. LOL. I've seen a number of people seriously indicate that he must like the boost when it was one of the first things he eq'ed out! LOL.

 

[Vuki]

So, to ask simple question - looking al measurements data for wilson and revel, would anyone guess that wilson would sound better then revel to any trained listener?

 

[heflys20]

So, to ask simple question - looking al measurements data for wilson and revel, would anyone guess that wilson would sound better then revel to any trained listener?

Well, after being eq'd, it's possibly. He only preferred it over the Revel after EQ. Out the box would likely be a different story, I'm sure.

 

[watchnerd]

So, to ask simple question - looking al measurements data for wilson and revel, would anyone guess that wilson would sound better then revel to any trained listener?

I don't have a problem with that.

Electrostats often measure weirdly, but can sound good, on particular material and for certain qualities, to trained listeners.

 

[Vuki]

Well, after being eq'd, it's possibly. He only preferred it over the Revel after EQ. Out the box would likely be a different story, I'm sure.

I'm not sure.

 

[DanielT]

I don't have a problem with that.

Electrostats often measure weirdly, but can sound good, on particular material and for certain qualities, to trained listeners.

..and they often have a very low distortion ..
Edit:
We are talking speakers, which can often have an audible distortion. It becomes cloudy, not clear, not distinct(bass ex), sharp treble, tiring sound, you do not want to turn up the volume..that kind of distortion.

 

[MrHifiTunes]

But in reflective room, shouldn"t smooth off-axis response of Revel be advantage?

My experience is that good sounding speakers (read flat on and off axis) can sound harsh in a highly reflective room)
There is something with the approach in this design but I don't quiet get it. I wish I could though.

 

[MrHifiTunes]

Amir is a bass head.

That is why he EQ-ed it down 6db. Gone is the bump.

 

[MrHifiTunes]

So prediction scores, harman research etc. All for nothing?

I wouldnt go so far....Maybe the scoring algorithm needs some fine tuning....

Some reseach on different balanced direct and indirect sound but still flat in room response would be helpfull.

 

[Vuki]

So the answer is —massive eclosure, natural sounding driver membrane material and musical voicing? Audiophile aprooved wiring could be added to the list?

 

[watchnerd]

That is why he EQ-ed it down 6db. Gone is the bump.

See "I was joking" comment above.

 

[Frank Dernie]

At least that's cheaper than the prices I'm getting asked to pay for Porsche accessories.

Ha-ha!
If I took all the pay for options on my Taycan order that are included on my plug-in Prius (which I chose over a Panamera Sport Turismo plug in 4 years ago FWIW) it would be £10,000 of extras, and one of my most wanted options has just been dropped due to parts shortage. I have still paid for folding wing mirrors and dimming mirrors but am not paying for the night view camera after having no warnings for 4 years and the head up display isn't worth what they charge IMO.
Mind you I am beginning to think Porsche ownership is intended for people more patient and tolerant than me...

 

[MattHooper]

All the analogies you guys are using are pointless here. If accurate sound reproduction is the usecase of a loudspeaker, only one outcome is right here. Everything else is broken, like a car with a engine that spurts every now and then but still somehow run. Yeah for some people it may be ok, if there is a sticker of Ferrari on it

Again...you just keep begging the question. This is what happens when you refuse to consider any view but your own on a subject.

The purpose of any X derives from the values/goals of a person...it is not intrinsic to X.

It's like a Sushi chef opining that any knife that fails to be optimized for cutting sushi is "broken," they are poor knives. But actually, people can design knives for other purposes which fulfill THOSE purposes well. The Sushi chef is blind to anything be beyond his own use case. Don't be that Sushi chef. ;-)

The goal YOU have for a loudspeaker - e.g. 'accurate sound reproduction' whatever specifically you have in mind for that - is YOUR goal, but it is not written in to the fabric of the universe that it is THE GOAL that every designer, or every consumer has for loudspeakers. The sooner you can accept this, the less puzzled and frusterated or annoyed you will be by instances like the Wilson or other speakers.

An example I've used before are Zu speakers, which always measure with wonky frequency response errors. They are "broken" if the goal for those speakers was Perfect Accuracy. But that is NOT the goal for the speakers. The designer self admittedly cares less about even frequency response and more about the sense of vividness and liveliness that he finds exciting in reproduced sound, and which also can remind him of "live" music.

I'd never heard a Zu speaker until I was enticed in to a room at an audio show by sound that was particularly "live" sounding to my ears in terms of a sense of life-like energy and vivid "attack" to the transients and playing of the instruments, especially drums and guitar. It really did have a bit more feeling of "music happening now, being played by musicians" than simply being a recording. I only found out afterward it was Zu speakers I was listening to. Then I instantly "got" what attracted many to that sound. Longer listening with more tracks may have cued me more in to the frequency response errors, and so I may have in the end said "not for me" but I'd STILL understand why they have attracted the fans they have. In on-line forums I've seen tons of truly ecstatically happy Zu speaker owners. The designer likes a certain sound, it's not perfectly accurate, and it seems there is an audience for that sound, a niche he is fulfilling, so good on him and lucky for those who love those speakers!

It's great to point out the objective performance of a speaker, and great to correlate the sound to audible characteristics. But it's also wise to recognize that not everyone shares your goals....and that's ok. You can still work to achieve your own goals (by purchasing equipment designed toward that goal - e.g. "accuracy" as you want to define it).

 

[MrHifiTunes]

See "I was joking" comment above.

be carefull with jokes.... specially when it is about a speaker people talk so serious about but would never buy anyway

 

[heflys20]

I'm not sure.

He said this about the bass-boost:

"There is a caveat that you need to know what good and clean bass is and the overall proper tonality. Otherwise, the "showroom sound" aspect of this speaker can be seductive making you want to listen to boosted bass and slightly elevated highs."

He's aware of the proper tonality of bass, hence his eq'ing it out. We know the Revel' are out the box neutral in that aspect. I'd be surprised if he preferred the Wilson' out of the box performance overall. Who knows though...We'll never know. I myself, don't care so much, he already said another cheaper speaker was better than both (the Genelec 8050b); plus I'm convinced that this speaker was engineered for show-room effect. Some people will definitely like it, I'm sure.

 

[watchnerd]

Ha-ha!
If I took all the pay for options on my Taycan order that are included on my plug-in Prius (which I chose over a Panamera Sport Turismo plug in 4 years ago FWIW) it would be £10,000 of extras, and one of my most wanted options has just been dropped due to parts shortage. I have still paid for folding wing mirrors and dimming mirrors but am not paying for the night view camera after having no warnings for 4 years and the head up display isn't worth what they charge IMO.
Mind you I am beginning to think Porsche ownership is intended for people more patient and tolerant than me...

I feel your pain.

Did you get your Taycan yet? I've been on the back order list due to battery shortages for over 12 months.

I can't even get a RAV4 Prime as our new dog car due to battery shortages.